Importance of Females in Breeding - Page 2

Have to agree with Jens thoughts

So do you start breeding a female around 3?  If so then what age do you stop breeding?

ACE,
by the time my female has SchH1 she is about 2.5-3 years old. I train for ScH3 not just to run around one blind. So It takes me little longer to get the title on her.
In another year she gets two-three..getting titles is not that hard, getting into higher competition is much harder! LOL
The rule says 8 years but people breed them longer.


Pirates Liar

I see how this thought in more appealing to people, I trully believe that is however one of the reasons why the males are looked at more carefully than females.

Pack

Ace, I like to breed a female the first time by the time she is 3. JMO but they seem to have smaller litters on average. and I know mine are better mothers, so better on the pups. I usually would not breed a female after 6 yrs. If I felt I had to , and youthfull vigor was still kept by her and healthy, I would breed later
My thinking (right or wrong) when pairs are in their peek of health, hormones etc will produce the best they will ever produce. It's always panned out that way for me.
hank

 Pack, you're making some interesting/odd assumptions about me and what I think and do.  Not sure where you get your basis for these from. Regardless, I maintain that it is rare for ME to find a female that I think is breedworthy. Other people think it's easy, obviously, if you look at the crap being bred. Standards, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc. etc. blah blah blah. It's very subjective, unfortunately.

What I want is like finding a needle in a haystack. I don't need to put my dogs out there so people "see them" and "recognize their value"; I actually try to connect w/the people who are looking for something a bit different, a little more than what the average or good sport/working dog breeding brings to the table, and that's primarily where my pups go- to the people who are looking for a twist on the norm. Sure, many are titling them in SchH, but that's not the be-all, end-all goal to the people who contact me about a dog. They want the dog first, then they want to do schH with it; they don't want "a schH dog." IMHO,  this "more than a sport dog" is determined by LIVING with a dog and doing a vast array of different activities with them, many of which can pressure a dog and separate the strong from the weak better than a SchH routine. I am only talking about my own experience and feelings on the matter, as I thought was what Ace was asking for by starting the thread.

I like titled females in that the most basic criteria is out of the way, then I can start really evaluating the dog. 

Hank, as usual, I agree. Whether there is scientific evidence or not, I try to go along w/nature as best I can, and I do agree that young and vigorous is the time for breeding. Not to say I wouldn't breed an older bitch if I had a good reason, but I wouldn't ever do anything to encourage a breeding that wasn't going to naturally occur (like hormone therapy, etc...).

 Just going from my experience when buying my first pup. My trainer was more interested in seeing the female work than the male. Said that the female makes up for 60-70% of that pups personality & drive. Not sure if its 100% accurate but it worked for me.  

 I do not understand the question I guess.

Females are half the equation if you don't count their influence on the pups after whelp and possibly even in the womb.  I would say that is pretty important. No...really I don't understand the question. 

 

Desert...you know, I thought females were bred starting arouns 18 months/2 years and then 4 or 5 was the max and considered old by then.  I didn't know typical breeding doesn't start till around 2.5-3 yrs old.  I just figured they were old by that time.

If a female is being bred past the age of 6 then she must be a good producer correct? 

With the focus usually being on the males, how do you determine if the dam is a good producer?  Some would say that it is just the male all over aqain.  i.e.  if she was bred to 2 good males ...people would give the males more credit than the females in producing a quality litter. 

Jenn....you mentioned a "twist on the norm".  What do you mean by that?

SSGuy...question is why is the dam role in breeding not seen as important as the males.  You always hear about top males in breeding  but you don't get the same attention when it comes to the females.

Ace-Very good topic!

I think everyone should re-read Pack's statement:
"I see how this thought is more appealing to people. I truly believe that is, however, one of the reasons why the males are looked at more carefully than females."

It is self-fulfilling prophecy.
If people are not going to do anything with their females, or, very little, why would you expect someone to pay much attention to them?
If the answer is, "Because I say so", it is a weak answer unless you really have the reputation to back it up. Other than maybe a handful of people I have very sparingly seen on this board, or Prager, no one here does, myself included.
I'll ask this question to PL (not picking on you either), do you show a lot of videos on your web site of your females working or just the males? (I haven't looked so I do not know) If I were looking for a dog from you I would want to see what Rush is sticking his dingus in when you produce pups, not just, "Uh, yea the bitch is great!"

Jen, As you know, I have seen Capri and you know that I like her. This is my opinion only, but, I think that it is a disservice to your beautiful dog to not title her further. If you remove the sport aspect from it and the scores, because at the end of the day, who gives a crap about the scores, having a 3 (or a PSA title, or AKC, or whatever) on her proves that she can work/train over time (as in years) and do it while producing pups. It is very valuable to this breed to know that with every female that is being bred. Dogs do wash out and I would want to know that mine didn't if I were breeding her. Otherwise we are left with a bunch of females that we really do not know if they are a much better working dog and working dog producer than what the showline folks have.