Sending your dog to Germany for training? - Page 2

Hello,
I believe the biggest problem you guys in the US have, is to find the right trainingplace and the limited number of trials you can attend. I bet most of you would love to title your dogs yourself, but it does become difficult if you have to drive 3 hours one way just to get to the trainingplace. Even if you do that, you will have to be very, very lucky if that place then has the right trainer for you & your dog. Plus, if you want to complete training in a reasonable timeframe, you would have to do these 6 hours trips at least 2 times a week.
Lets see, from the top of my head, I have 4 trainingplaces in a 30 min driving distance - it is not uncommon to go to 1 place for OB, and then going to a different one for protection the same evening. And you can do this over here, if you are a member of the SV, for you are either a member of the club (approx. 30$ per year) or if you do protection in a club where you are not a member, you pay a fee of 5-10$. I have heared numbers of what they charge in the US, that made me cringe. I guess the trainers know that there is only a limited number, so they charge what they feel like.
What I am trying to say is :
If you do not have the time and devotion and resources, it may very well be an alternative for you to send a dog over to Germany  for beeing titelt. The crux with this is in the pudding, how do I find the best place ? This will be your biggest problem, but it sure can be done, do your research carefully. There are crooks out there, but they sure are not the mayority, but that wont help you, if one of them has your dog !! Plus, I have seen it, even if your dog gets all the titeling in, you saw on video that your dog worked just fine with his trainer and earned his titels "honestly", it still does not mean, that your dog will work in the same manner with you !!! 
So after all, one should take all considerations into account, and make, that is most important, an informed decision.
Ulli

In Houston, TX there are a few training places, but the weather is so hot for such a long time every year. Yesterday we had our first "cool" day since may. The tempature didn't break 90F (32c), and the humidity was only 70%. As I drove through our neighborhood I say kids outside playing. Adults were also out taking walks and talking to each other.......With such high tempatures and humidity, we are forced to practice either very late in the evening or early in the morning. The weather should be back into the mid 90's be the end of the week. The closest practice fields are over an hour's drive each way and clubs meet only once a week - Saturday or Sunday mornings. Most clubs ar more of a social club and focus on protection work and leave obedience and tracking up to the owners, offering little or no help in these areas. Conformation shows in Texas are almost non-existant so we are forced to drive 10 or 24 hours to compete a show. A few months ago I drove 4 ours each way just for a "practice show" because that's all there was.

I'm working Jyota as best I can, her obedience is going well, her tracking is ok and she really enjoys her protection work. She will have all her basics well entrenched and then I will send her away to complete her training, title and breed survey.

The cost to take her to a show - travel, hotel, entry fees, handler fee, etc is as expensive as the airfare to send her to Germany.

Hedi,
Other than a man out in California, that happens to be German, there are no "midnight trials" here.
The experience I have with this is seeing many, many, many show line dogs that people send to Germany and pay a lot of money to have titled. The dog is there for 3 to 6 momths and it comes back here and can not track, can not heel off leash (or on leash) and can do minimal bite work, if any, but, they have a Sch1 or 2 or 3 on them.
It is a joke and as a person with German heritage it makes me sick!
What experience do you have with this?

I would not send any of my dogs anywhere. I am so controlling that even for breeding purposes I go with the female..

OGBS
So what you are saying is this, If i take my Dog for a ScH1 test  in Germany, then i only have to go through the motions to get a Pass It is that easy, I will make enquires on what you say i know a few German Dog people it will be interesting to here there views on what you say.
Steve1

OGBS,
wether or not there are "Midnighttrials" in the US, I cant say and I wont comment on it either.
I do know, or better, I have heared that this does happen, but certainly not on a scale, that someone could think after reading your post. Sadlay, as I stated in my last post, there are crooks out there, who are taking advantage out of these scenarios. It is most important to do your research before you send a dog over, at that anywhere in the world where training is offered, to be as sure as one can, to send the dog to a responsible, honest Trainer.
My experience tells me, if one only wants to spend 1500 €uros for BH,AD, SchH 1 and Koerung, he probably wont get an intensive trained dog back, but a dog that has the basics down but needs further training to imprint the learned more. The concept is clear, they only condition the dog for trial day, not more , not less. So the dog might pass allright on that day. More than often the owners want their animals back as soon as possible, plus the mentioned amount is not very much, considering that a trainer keeps the dog for 3 month, feeds the animal, trains it, pays the entry fees, grooms it......... 1500 €uro, roughly 2000$, that I believe is not  enough for the effort.
There are experienced trainers out there that have set prices that will include all the said above, regardless how long it takes to get the task done. But, and there is always a but, the dog may work very good with his Trainer, but might not with you, I have seen it, it can happen. 
And yes, it makes me sick aswell, when I hear about some fishy trials, it gives any honest person a bad rep aswell. Anyhow, there are way more honest peopel out there then crooks, you just have to find them.
Ulli 

Ulli
You hit the nail on the head, and i have said it so many times before
Anyone can send there dog to a Trainer be it in another town where they live or another country, The Dog can be trained in various aspects of ScH from Obed to Protection to even a Title, and earn it well, For the person working the Dog
But when that Dog gets home it most likely will not work for the original Handler -  Owner
Why is this, Simple, The Dog has been trained by someone who knows what they are doing
The Owner - Handler in the meantime has not been TRAINED, he or she remains the same as before the Dog left them not knowing how to train the dog or how to remedy a problem, That is the crux of the matter and who takes the brunt, The Guy it was sent to wherever it was. He will be at fault
Steve1

OGBS,
I think that Ulli put it the best.  The sport is more accesible in Germany.  There are several clubs realitvly close to almost anywhere.  My experiences are limited to Germany and Czech.  That is where I am from, GE.  Yes I have titled several SCHIII dogs and even competed in some larger trials, on the national level.  I have not titled a dog here and will do so as soon as my dog is of age.  I think that Steve1 also made a valid point about handler/trainers.  Another point that was mentioned is the cost of working Schutzhund here in the US...it is almost unaccesible for various reasons.  The closest club to me is a 2.5 hour drive (in the US).  Where in Germany I only lived 20 minutes from my home club and training field.  It is different here.  I hope that my experience with the sport in this country is just as amazing as it was back home.  I know that I enjoyed spending my time at my local club training with others and most of all having the satisfaction of working my dog at the levels I have.  My only request is to not pass judgement on something that one only has a narrow picture of, it is not a German problem.  I encourage you to take the time to visit the country with your dog and I think you would be amazed at the passion and drive you see at most of these clubs.      

OGBS,  where there is money, there is the potential for corruption.  I tried to enter another clubs trial and I was informed that I could not be guarenteed the same type of tracking conditions and field as the other entrants.  I know of a trial where the entrants tracked at on particuilar field, when they got back to the b and c field they found out 2 club members and the td tracked at another field.  Without the other entrants having the opportunity to watch those tracks.  Those tracks were V scores as well.  To me there is not much difference from a parking lot trial and a trial where the dog obtains his title and given TSB, but came off the sleeve during stick hits and refused to engage the helper again.  Its all corruption.  None of it improves the working ability of the GSD.

Kyle

For me it was taking up to much time to train everyday.  I love the sport as a fun thing to do and needing the titles was keeping me from having fun.  Now I have them and training is SO MUCH MORE FUN!  Plus, now I can do the titles again myself when I am ready and as I like.  Was not cheap, but well worth it.

To send a dog to germany:
BH, Sch 1, Kor: 1900.00 EURO
Sch 2 - 800.00 euro
Sch 3 - 800.00 euro
Shipping - variable 600-800 euro each way unless checking as baggage then it is like 300.00 US dollars.
Shipping from airport to trainer (in some cases the trainer does this at no charge) 300.00 euro

Happiness when you get your dog completely done.........PRICELESS!

( I should mention that I trained with him for a year before I sent him and when he left, he had a BH and some other ob titles.)

I really liked the trainer I used as did my dog!  If you need her contact info. PM me.