Stahlrosenhof Kennels? - Page 2

Phil,

You seem to exception to a lot of posts on this forum. I was just giving them other options of breeders to look into without all of the side commentary that comes with a lot of messages that are posted not only from you, but other people too!

So what you are saying is that trying to get background information about what a first time Malinois owner can expect from the breed is not a straight answer?  Would you rather just sell someone a puppy and have them call you back 2 days later and tell you "it's too much dog for us, we want to bring it back".  That's after what they told me was a 2 year research study on "the breed for them and their active lifestyle". 

My side commentary comes from spending 29 years training dogs and helping people not only find the right fit for their situation but also helping, in many cases, people who have never owned a dog before learn how to live with one.  I have seen the Malinois become very popular over the last 20 years and have witnessed many people get into the breed for the wrong reasons.  The Malinois has become the easy way out for getting dogs that bring a lot to the table without a lot of finesse or ability contributed by the handler.  Personally, I don't like it and being that this is a public forum where ideas and thoughts are openly discussed, I believe I have the right to offer my opinion.  In the future, if you don't like what I have to say, skip over my posts and find someone who agrees with you.

Side commentary complete.

"Again, it kind of goes back to one's reasons for getting a Malinois. Do you (not you in particular) want a dog for sport or personal protection? Do you want a pet? (get another breed) Were you able to register your dog?" (Phil Behun)



Here is a demeaning misconception about the Malinois i think someone is trying to convey through all of his useless posts. First they are high drive very active dogs, and that is shown in any form of research that anyone can conduct. Second they do not fit with the typical dog owners needs and are often dumped off for a lack of understanding of the breed if acquired by someone with little knowledge. That is not to say that pet owners can not own one. It is about the lines of the dog that you intend to buy and the future owners devotion, it is about as simple as that. First off don't confuse or misinterpret my intentions, I feel as a breeder and a Malinois enthusiast that you should not alter the true intentions that the dog was originally breed for. For example DO NOT breed out the aggression, or do not breed out the drive so you can create low drive useless Malinois so you can sell them to pet homes. Intern breed for the true intentions and workability that the dog was breed for in the first place. There are many different types of Malinois out there and I know that most have heard terms like French Ring Lines, KNPV Lines, Schutzhund Lines, ect... and yes I know that there is dramatic differences in body type, different levels of aggression and many other things, but that is something that individual breeders have developed in there blood lines. Who is to say that this is correct to the true intentions of breeding dogs in general? What I am trying to say here is if you intend on getting a Malinois and have never had one search out people that are willing to help and that have Malinois, go visit them, discuss your intentions, and let them know your experiance level, and a good breeder that knows there dogs will let you know if there dogs are right for you; and a bad breeder will turn you away because you have never had a Mal before and say stupid s### like the above post. 
 
Now this boils down to the fact that I am sick and tired of reading someone's posts about the Malinois. For someone that says he is dedicated and enjoys the breed so much you sure are a negative Nancy and have no respect for the breed if you do not want to share what little positive knowledge of the breed that you may have or think that you are so great that only people like yourself should own one of these incredible dogs. "YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE"

So in conclusion don't look at the Malinois as though they are all crazy and loaded with stupid look at them like you should they are a tool and are capable of doing many things and that includes being a very active pet. 

Although I agree with your statement

So in conclusion don't look at the Malinois as though they are all crazy and loaded with stupid look at them like you should they are a tool and are capable of doing many things and that includes being a very active pet. 

and actually a lot of your post, I can also see Phil's point of view, or at least where I think he's coming from.

When I first got into the Malinois about 20 years ago, nobody knew what they were, and 98% of the people that wanted one, wanted one to work.  Even if the work was "just" to be an active pet and personal protection dog, they did intend to train it on a regular basis.   Now, I have to agree with Phil

I have seen the Malinois become very popular over the last 20 years and have witnessed many people get into the breed for the wrong reasons. The Malinois has become the easy way out for getting dogs that bring a lot to the table without a lot of finesse or ability contributed by the handler.

I talk to WAY to many people who admit they don't even really like the breed, but they have one because that's what wins in their sport of choice.  But if they weren't doing that sport, they would never consider having a Malinois.  In addition, I have seen a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for a Malinois as a pet/protection dog.  I don't have a problem with that, but many (most?) of these people have little to no dog experience, no intentions of actually training the dog, and a lifestyle that isn't conducive to a high drive/high energy dog.  They say they have done all the research and are positive this is the breed for them, but if you dig deeper what they have done is watch a few cool videos on the internet, looked at some photos, and decided a Malinois is what they want, because they think it will just naturally do all the things they see on the video.  They like the idea of an active dog, then you find out their version of an active dog is a dog they take for a 2 mile walk twice a week and toss in the backyard the rest of the time.  When I talk to these people, I do my best to educate them on what the breed is like to live with, then send them on their way, but the reality is 90% of them will just go find another breeder, who will sell them a dog, who will then end up in the pound or rescue because it was way more dog then they wanted.  Or they will find a breeder who is watering down the dogs, specifically to sell to homes like this.

Exactly.

re the earlier post, if you don't like what I have to say,,,,,,,,,don't read it.

Let me 'splain it this way; football is my favorite sport but for the sake of discussion, I'll use a baseball example.  I am a White Sox fan born and raised in Chicago, my sister, her husband and even my 85 year old mother are huge Cub fans.  Because I dislike the Cubs, does that mean I am not a baseball fan?

Vince seems to think because I don't like Dutch dogs or Perle de Tourbiere dogs, that I am not a Malinois lover.  It is my affection for the breed that leads me to the opinion that they (the Malinois) are not for everyone.  I don't breed my dogs to push out puppies for sale, I breed for myself.  I assembled the bloodlines that I have now to breed the type of Malinois that I like,,,,,,,for me.  I now have one.  So, consequently my breeding is on hold.  I have what I want (so far,,,fingers crossed) so I don't need to produce any more.

If you think that trying to insult me is going to hurt my feelings, you got the wrong guy.  Will it change my opinion of dogs from Holland or Perle de Tourbiere,,,no.  You like 'em, good for you.  I don't want one.  You want to breed pets?  Please get another breed.  Sure every now and then a dog or two come out of a litter that aren't necessarily working machines, but when it becomes the majority of the litter, there is a problem.  When the goal of a breeding program is to find pet homes for a working dog, I cry foul.  Ask the working Border Collie people,,,,,not AKC folk but the hardcore sheep herders what their opinion is of agility/obedience Border Collies.  Keep the Malinois a strong working dog with the weaker ones being eliminated from the gene pool, not necessarily by culling but at least by spay/neuter.  Backyard novices breeding their dogs and selling unpapered mutts for $200 have no place in the breed.  JMO

Phil,
           PDT has this to bring to the table, Eik DP2,  and lots of him. .........I love that dog
and no other dog is quite like him. The other one I like is Othar who is in the top 5 of all time
Malinois stud dogs. But.....I use about a 1/8 of Jan's line in my dogs and I get excellent
bite work because of that. There is no argument about the mixing going on in the Netherlands
or in Belgium, but I still would recommend Jan's dogs for Courage and very good bite work.
This is a general post. But if you like you can ask some more specific question.
I like Phil's line because he uses of very good NVBK dogs. NVBK dogs by the way, are notoriously
bred and mixed, but reg with false documentation. I have had breeders tell many times
the dogs I see on the pedigree were only for regs. This is very frightening to most people.
But in Northern Belgium and the Netherlands they are not going to pass on a very good
working dog because it is not Reg. Kind of the history of the breed. It was the poor mans dog.

Talk to Jan, he is a very big part of this breed. I personally like to keep my Malinois about 70-75lbs
and hard as steel. So I stay with a German, Belgium and Dutch blend. My dutch is PDT about 1/8.

Disclaimer.........Phils dogs are all properly registered..........I will have him jumping my ass for
making a insinuation.  NVBK in general has this history.

A good dog is a good dog. It dont matter. Vinnie quit posting. Unless you really are that bored...