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by sheila rankin on 25 June 2010 - 16:06
The meeting between BAGSD & the Kennel Club had NOTHING to do with the Breed Council. BAGSD is not a member of the B/C. Presumably Mr Wootton was invited by BAGSD or the KC either in his capacity as Breed Liaison Rep or because of his knowledge of the German system or both. It is up to Mr Wootton if he wants to inform the B/C of the content of the BAGSD/KC meeting.
Sheila Rankin
Sheila Rankin
by Eric on 25 June 2010 - 16:06
I only look in here now and again, and NEVER NORMALLY POST as I would not want to be seen as " another of the crazy English who fight amongst themselves rather than get on and do something with their dogs" as I have heard us described numerous times on the Continent.
However this thread appears to be a misguided attempt at scaremongering so let me put a few people straight, firstly I attend more working dog trials in Germany either Schutzhund,IPO, or whatever you wish to call them than anybody else in the UK ( not bragging or complaining but simply fact and one which i am absolutely positive no one can question). I would also dare to test the fact that i may have attended more Koerung's in Germany than anyone else in the UK.
it is well known here in the UK that i am rightly or wrongly a staunch advocate and supporter of the German SV system in both working and showdogs and have therefore made it my business to understand and comply with their system.
In the case of IPO (and I have checked this prior to posting) where the dog is owned outside of Germany ie. Italy,Belgium UK, ETC, the IPO qualifications will be recognised as sufficient for a Koerung providing as with all things that they were achieved under a recognised judge. If a dog is resident in Germany, under German ownership and is to be used for breeding IN GERMANY then a working qualification under an Sv judge must be obtained.
Given the problems we have experienced in the past i personally at the present time would always advise that working qualifications are taken under a foreign judge as although several of our judges attended a seminar with Herr Gunther Diegal which was intended to acheive recognition, I have not seen any official worded document attesting to the fact that they will be be recognised if taken under one of our own domestic Judges.
However let's be very clear IPO IS A WORLDWIDE RECOGNISED WORKING QUALIFICATION PROVIDING THE TESTS ARE CARRIED OUT UNDER A RECOGNISED JUDGE AND THEREFORE THERE IS NO PROBLEM PRESENTING AN ANIMAL TITLED IN ITS COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE FOR A KOERUNG. FACT.
Now to the point that enraged me enough to take the trouble to post here, anyone who is claiming other than the above facts is either mis-informed or attempting to scaremonger the grass roots GSD people who are trying so hard to improve things here in the UK.
Maybe it's time the people here in the UK who are actually out there training their dogs, whether it be for work or show, told certain others who do nothing more than attempt to create trouble between one faction and another to get the hell out of it !!!
I for one am sick to death, and deeply embarrased when abroad, of the constant arguing and backbiting that is put on these forums for the World to see.
Get a life guys for christ's sake!
I have friends, good friends both within the GSDL and BAGSD and have no problem with either as I am sure is the case for most people, surely there must be enough of us now to show the minority who unfortunately have been shouting the loudest for some time that WE THE MAJORITY DO ACTUALLY GET ON OK AND HAVE NO TIME OR INCLINATION TO BE DRAGGED INTO THE PATHETIC SQUABBLING BY A RELATIVE FEW!
However this thread appears to be a misguided attempt at scaremongering so let me put a few people straight, firstly I attend more working dog trials in Germany either Schutzhund,IPO, or whatever you wish to call them than anybody else in the UK ( not bragging or complaining but simply fact and one which i am absolutely positive no one can question). I would also dare to test the fact that i may have attended more Koerung's in Germany than anyone else in the UK.
it is well known here in the UK that i am rightly or wrongly a staunch advocate and supporter of the German SV system in both working and showdogs and have therefore made it my business to understand and comply with their system.
In the case of IPO (and I have checked this prior to posting) where the dog is owned outside of Germany ie. Italy,Belgium UK, ETC, the IPO qualifications will be recognised as sufficient for a Koerung providing as with all things that they were achieved under a recognised judge. If a dog is resident in Germany, under German ownership and is to be used for breeding IN GERMANY then a working qualification under an Sv judge must be obtained.
Given the problems we have experienced in the past i personally at the present time would always advise that working qualifications are taken under a foreign judge as although several of our judges attended a seminar with Herr Gunther Diegal which was intended to acheive recognition, I have not seen any official worded document attesting to the fact that they will be be recognised if taken under one of our own domestic Judges.
However let's be very clear IPO IS A WORLDWIDE RECOGNISED WORKING QUALIFICATION PROVIDING THE TESTS ARE CARRIED OUT UNDER A RECOGNISED JUDGE AND THEREFORE THERE IS NO PROBLEM PRESENTING AN ANIMAL TITLED IN ITS COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE FOR A KOERUNG. FACT.
Now to the point that enraged me enough to take the trouble to post here, anyone who is claiming other than the above facts is either mis-informed or attempting to scaremonger the grass roots GSD people who are trying so hard to improve things here in the UK.
Maybe it's time the people here in the UK who are actually out there training their dogs, whether it be for work or show, told certain others who do nothing more than attempt to create trouble between one faction and another to get the hell out of it !!!
I for one am sick to death, and deeply embarrased when abroad, of the constant arguing and backbiting that is put on these forums for the World to see.
Get a life guys for christ's sake!
I have friends, good friends both within the GSDL and BAGSD and have no problem with either as I am sure is the case for most people, surely there must be enough of us now to show the minority who unfortunately have been shouting the loudest for some time that WE THE MAJORITY DO ACTUALLY GET ON OK AND HAVE NO TIME OR INCLINATION TO BE DRAGGED INTO THE PATHETIC SQUABBLING BY A RELATIVE FEW!
by Penny on 25 June 2010 - 16:06
Eric,
a fantastic post... clear - concise - and now we all know we have nothing to fear. I do however, feel very aggrieved that as a BAGSD branch - No one told us we were name changing or that it was afoot to do so - makes us all look a bit dated, daft and un informed to our own members.... Still to dwell on not being told is equally silly - so I shall move on in a very positive way. Mo.
a fantastic post... clear - concise - and now we all know we have nothing to fear. I do however, feel very aggrieved that as a BAGSD branch - No one told us we were name changing or that it was afoot to do so - makes us all look a bit dated, daft and un informed to our own members.... Still to dwell on not being told is equally silly - so I shall move on in a very positive way. Mo.
by Videx on 25 June 2010 - 18:06
The list of frustrations by BAGSD branches and members grows ever longer - clearly only fools remain in BAGSD.
So it appears the appalling position of BAGSD regarding the team selection process for the Worlds is NOT disgusting. So say those with 'self-interests uppermost'.
So it appears the appalling position of BAGSD regarding the team selection process for the Worlds is NOT disgusting. So say those with 'self-interests uppermost'.
by JackieJ on 25 June 2010 - 20:06
Napoleon we are bored now with your ramblings.
It's not as if you have wit.
Some post comments engage with others, you on the other hand just come to antagonise us, you solely are untermenschen.
You're like a kid with a magnifying glass getting puerile kicks out of burning things.
Just reread all that you've written in between your meds and you'll see you belong with the inbred’s.
JJ
It's not as if you have wit.
Some post comments engage with others, you on the other hand just come to antagonise us, you solely are untermenschen.
You're like a kid with a magnifying glass getting puerile kicks out of burning things.
Just reread all that you've written in between your meds and you'll see you belong with the inbred’s.
JJ
by steve1 on 25 June 2010 - 20:06
Eric is correct when the Judge being German was mentioned it was meant to be a SV recognized judge and he there fore can be a German, Dutch or Belgian judge just to illustrate three, It does not mean he has to be a Judge of German Origin but a registered Judge of the SV
Steve1
Steve1
by hutch on 27 June 2010 - 21:06
Well said Eric.
Oh - and I am no fool but I want to train my dog myself not pay to have someone train him for me - it may take me longer than those with more experience but i will get there. I have found a trainer that I really respect and who is incredibly supportive of newcomers - so it is a BAGSD branch - that does not make me a fool. I don't agree with the selection process and I hope those who are in a position to do something about it will eventually do the right thing.
Shirley
Oh - and I am no fool but I want to train my dog myself not pay to have someone train him for me - it may take me longer than those with more experience but i will get there. I have found a trainer that I really respect and who is incredibly supportive of newcomers - so it is a BAGSD branch - that does not make me a fool. I don't agree with the selection process and I hope those who are in a position to do something about it will eventually do the right thing.
Shirley
by Videx on 27 June 2010 - 21:06
Those in a position to do something - the BAGSD members for example? some joke.
BAGSD members & Branches clearly have the Executive they deserve.
BAGSD members & Branches clearly have the Executive they deserve.
by Penny on 27 June 2010 - 22:06
I certainly dont take kindly to being called a fool David - if I am being classed as that because I havent rescinded my BAGSD membership. I have unfinished items that I wish to see through, and whether we make the difference for the majority or whether we dont, doesnt make us fools for trying. Whether I renew my membership for next year is another story, but for this year I dont intend being called a fool without objecting, thanks. There are many people that are both GSDL and BAGSD members, myself for one. You are right, the list of frustrated members is growing ..... but isnt that because a handful of us have exposed more and more of the undemocratic and antiquated ways that BAGSD seem to deal in? Mo.
by Videx on 28 June 2010 - 04:06
To remain in BAGSD is to turn a blind eye to many appalling practices, particularly over recent months. Mo, you have personally witnessed and been a victim of such practices. Exposing undemocratic and antiquated ways that BAGSD 'seem' to deal in, must bring with it much more than simply exposing more of the same.
There is so much to disagree with about BAGSD, yet this can clearly be brushed aside by some if BAGSD happen to have within its ranks a very good trainer. Clearly the cancellation of the Birmingham Championship Show this year, with all its attendant allegations and consequences can now be tucked away in the history files.
BAGSD a self proclaimed WUSV founding member Club, now decides to name its "BAGSD/VPG branches", "BAGSD/IPO branches". Clearly a decision meant to ingratiate BAGSD with the FCI and the Kennel Club rather than the SV or WUSV.
It is logical for BAGSD to be slipping and sliding towards oblivion, they have almost reached oblivion in the GSD show scene, they barely survive by hanging onto the coat tails of the GSD League through our Sieger Show. They are progressing towards oblivion in the working scene and dabbling with name changes will not offer any respite. They most likely have a majority membership in the border collie fraternity and are clearly reaping the harvest from the sterile seeds they have sown and are continuing to sow, it continues unabated.
There is so much to disagree with about BAGSD, yet this can clearly be brushed aside by some if BAGSD happen to have within its ranks a very good trainer. Clearly the cancellation of the Birmingham Championship Show this year, with all its attendant allegations and consequences can now be tucked away in the history files.
BAGSD a self proclaimed WUSV founding member Club, now decides to name its "BAGSD/VPG branches", "BAGSD/IPO branches". Clearly a decision meant to ingratiate BAGSD with the FCI and the Kennel Club rather than the SV or WUSV.
It is logical for BAGSD to be slipping and sliding towards oblivion, they have almost reached oblivion in the GSD show scene, they barely survive by hanging onto the coat tails of the GSD League through our Sieger Show. They are progressing towards oblivion in the working scene and dabbling with name changes will not offer any respite. They most likely have a majority membership in the border collie fraternity and are clearly reaping the harvest from the sterile seeds they have sown and are continuing to sow, it continues unabated.
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