What you breed is what you get! - Page 2

DAWN,hello.i,ve had a GSD ,not one i bred,but bought in and he has severe hd also but only on one hip.his score was 3-45.he lived to 13.it wasnt his hip condition that he had to be put to sleeo,but a torsion.i must admit i did consider during the winter when he,d got over 10,when he was having trouble getting up whether to put him to sleep,but when the spring and warm weather arrived it was like he was rejuvenated again and he loved going out into the fielsds to run and play with the others.i,m glad that i didnt give in and put him to sleep before his time to go was due.i understand your loss jante and had surmised that your gsd had hd.they do compensate by building more muscle tone which supports them.caesar was about 10/11 years old before it started giving him grief and that only lasted for 3/4 months of the year.perhaps yu havent come to terms with having yours pts.Carole.

Hi there Dawn,
you are so right!!! Nobody is perfect and no dog is perfect!
But Jantie is a perfectionist by nature and if something does not fall into this category, it needs to be eliminated. The oldtimers here all remember Indiana vom Wildsteiger Land!!
1) Jantie wanted a GSD, not just some GSD. It had to be from the best kennel in the world. The GSD breeder in his vicinity was not good enough!
2) His GSD had to be the nicest and most beautiful one! He had planned his feeding, upbringing and socialization to the "t". We all remember these posts!
3) Indiana was diagnosed with HD! Jantie dragged him to specialists. Not to help the dog, but to document his outrage about the perceived fraud which was done to him!
4) Here on the PDB, we all pleaded with him to let his dog live. Somebody offered to take him, asked for Indiana to be shipped to her and we would have put up a collection. There would have been no costs for Jantie!
5) Yet, he chose to have this beautiful dog killed and dissected (photos under Indiana's picture gallery - unless Jantie deleted them). A lot of people here were sick to their stomach!
6) He sued the breeder in court and lost his case! Under German law, you have to prove negligence by the breeder which could have only been done if he could have proven that parents and ancestors had HD and were used for breeding. Of course, all dogs had a-stamps! Yet, Jantie blamed the loss on his legal representation's lack of knowledge/advice!
7) Ever since then, he has started his personal vendetta. The breeder could not be touched, so he targets the SV and the GSD in general, as that is what the SV stands for.
8) The only recourse he has is this board. Members of the German boards, show and working people alike do not want to give him the time of the day. These two groupd usually never agree on anything but in Jantie's case they all do! This is his only way of getting attention! Do not give it to him, please!

Jantie,
I know you will hate it that I bring up these old stories but I have to. You are so full of hatred I feel sorry for you! Can you ever be happy and positive about anything?
Chris

Jantie, for a while, I read your posts and studied your charts with interest.

Now, I have to revert to my standard reply to those who present them selveses as authorities on the GSD.

"Don't tell me what you know, show me what you have". I have enough years to determine for myself your knowledge.

Why have you not spent all this energy on developing the "perfect" GSD, rather than attacking others.

The GSD is a very multi-faceted dog. Not only should he have conformation, he should also have good health and excellent character. What have you done to advance the GSD as a breed, other than attack what others do.

I invite you to produce the "perfect" GSD. Prefect heath, perfect character, perfect conformation.

Why do you waste your time attacking others, when you could be spending it producing the "perfect GSD"

Best,
Rik

I understand Janties anger as I have dealt many times with sick dogs that I've purchased from other breeders.

only person thats knows how much their dog was hurting was Jantie,  no one else on the board would have that knowledge.  and yes, I consider euth. a merciful end  compared to countless surgeries which may or may not have done any good  or given the dog any quality of life.

No Wildsteigerland  should not really be blamed for  the problem  Jantie had with her dog.  but  she does have a right to be angry with "breeders" in general.  How many  greats have been lost recently at young ages?  and  people sweep  the cause of death under the rug.  no one is willing to discuss health problems in the breed,  who is producing them ect. 

If you guys can stomach that, please have a look: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/picturegallery/2642.html
If I have to euthanize a beloved dog, I could never imagine having a post mortem done to satisfy my curiosity.
Again, this dog had unilateral hip dysplasia, he could have had a hip replacement or a removal of the femur head and lived. In addition, he never showed any discomfort, according to Jantie himself!! Why did he have to be put to sleep? He could have lived as a pet here in the U.S.  But Jantie did not want him to! It would not have served his purpose!
Here is some more reading material for interested people. I will not comment here anymore because Jantie will certainly come here again with a lengthy post and I will not give him any more attention! He called us "backyard bitches" in one of these threads.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/115371.html
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/41833.html
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/153824.html
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/75480.html
Some older threads have been deleted. There may be more, you can always search the message board for Indiana.
Rest in Peace, Indiana! You were not perfection and had the misfortune of being sold to a perfectionist as a puppy!
Chris

I recued a dog  that had been hit by a car.  hip was dislocated and the vet removed the femoral head.  needless to say,  it was a constant battle  and the dog was miserable.  her hip never healed,  and she began to loose considerable muscle mass in that leg,  to the point of it just looking like bone and fur. I tried water therapy,  I tried working the leg myself,  nothing worked.   I wouldn't recommend the surgery to anyone.

maybe more autopsies need to be done on these dogs dieing/being put down early.  you can only speculate about a problem  until you can visibly see the injury/deformity/ect.

and no, I am not for euth.  any dog who isn't perfect.  at the moment I am caring for a aussie I found on the side of the road with nuerological damage.  until I find her a suitable home willing to work with her limitations,  she'll stay here.  and I've raised a little pomeranian with crippled back legs until his organs started to fail.

I must say after seeing Sibersee's last post with Jantie's link, it brought me to tears. I don't understand how anyone could butcher their beloved pet like that, at least let them past away in peace & respect their bodies.
Didn't they at least want their dog's ashes instead of those photo's? The $ he most spent on a lawyer, courts, vet bills / xrays, vet to butcher their dog, etc.. he could have spent on hip surgery.
If you have a good surgically vet the out come is wonderful with hip surgery. I paid over $10K to replace one hip on my 11 year old GSD, mind you which also had ear surgery & tumor removal surgery the same year before the hip surgery. She was up & running around 3 weeks after the surgery, with no adverse side effects for her few remaining years left before she was taken by cancer. I had several rescues which I fostered & paid for their hip transplants also. All of which had wonderful recovery & long happy healthy lives in adopted homes. Sad, no dog will ever judge it's owner on looks, health, or personality let a lone reject them for any fault, yet how quick some people are to neglect / abuse / abandon them in their time of need. This story breaks my heart. I feel bad for the owners grief, & but most of all the dogs lost of life.

I rescued a badly crippled young GSD with behavioral issues many years ago. I was told he wasn't worth the trouble & scheduled to be put to sleep. But he had a spark in his eyes told me he had something special, so I adopted him out of the shelter. His front leg was so badly broken previously that my vet thought he won't he able to save it, & he had HD! So countless surgeries a year later, he was fully recovered health wise. Then another 6-8 months of behavioral modification to address his lack of socialization leading to fear aggression. He was now a beautiful looking, proud, happy GSD. He was adopted to a very nice woman with lots of experience with dogs.
She had a horrible car accident shortly after the adoption & was left paralysed. But her new adopted GSD qualified to become her assistant dog. He gave her his lifetime of faithful service.
So who is to say that poor once crippled & mix up puppy was worthless, or any other dog that is not "perfect"?

I understand the anger you feel towards the breeder, when you have a beloved puppy suffering. But why take it out on the dog by death. If the dog was suffering it'll be a different situation, almost a kindness to end the dogs pain. If not it was just pointless. This buyer should have had the hips checked before he purchased the dog if  it meant he would destroy him if he didn't have perfect hips. I've purchased various dogs over the years in hopes to show / work, only to be let down with health / temperament / drive issues. But all those dogs still made beloved pets.