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by Gustav on 10 February 2010 - 23:02
I especially take note of what his mentor Alfred Hahn of Busecker Schlob kennel told him. Remember, you can improve structure in a couple generations, but character and temperament take much longer to get back!! When you as a breeder understand this and accept this(I think Alfred Hahn has forgot more than 99% of the breeders today), certain techniques to improve temperament by some breeder will never work. If you are starting with weak character or nerves to start with you would have to outcross for 5 or 6 generations to genetically stronger dogs to reach stock that will consistently give you excellent working temperament. To try to breed dogs within the same type but with stronger temperament themselve, WON'T work!! To breed a dog to an outcross with good conformation THEN go back to the same dogs that you were trying to improve temperament in the first place....Won't work.
As Alfred Hahn is saying it takes many generations to bring character and temperament back!! Have tried to preach this on this forum for years but all you get from some are you are bashing, you are biased, don't want to go into show vs work again, blah blah, blah. The situation is what it is and when you dig yourself into a whole then is only ONE way out!! When you are on level ground you have four different directions you can go...but when you are in a hole???ONE WAY!
It is really refreshing to be on the same side of the coin as people such as Walter Hoffman, Alfred Hahn, and Koss Hassing. Doesn't mean they or myself is right, but it feels real comfortable seeing things the way they do.
As Alfred Hahn is saying it takes many generations to bring character and temperament back!! Have tried to preach this on this forum for years but all you get from some are you are bashing, you are biased, don't want to go into show vs work again, blah blah, blah. The situation is what it is and when you dig yourself into a whole then is only ONE way out!! When you are on level ground you have four different directions you can go...but when you are in a hole???ONE WAY!
It is really refreshing to be on the same side of the coin as people such as Walter Hoffman, Alfred Hahn, and Koss Hassing. Doesn't mean they or myself is right, but it feels real comfortable seeing things the way they do.
by Sunsilver on 11 February 2010 - 00:02
Thank you for finding the correct link. What he says in the link I found is, of course, very similar, but less detailed.
I can't believe they would let dogs pass the gunsureness test just because they 'passed' the courage test. (Even in that test, some of them came off the sleeve.)
I knew the SV has been accused of being corrupt, but had no idea just HOW bad it was until I read that interview!
by vithala on 11 February 2010 - 01:02
I did an indepth interview with Koos Hassing last October. I visited his training grounds and did helper work for Max Tiekerhook ( that was pretty cool). I compiled 34 additional Interviews in script from persons in the Working world,show world, Police, Herding and Utility. I will release my collection of Interviews as a book, along with a DVD which has footage of Koos at his training grounds and his home. Many of the views expressed are of course consistent with the Interview he did with me. It is planned for release in September this year.
The Project is still in the works but has input from some older kennels like the Heirs to Arminius Kennel and Winereau and the WildsteigerLand Kennel. From Karthago, to Morfelder Land and some newer kennels like Del Lupo Nero. From large kennels that have had to expand their name into 3 or 4 derivatives, to revived ones or some being run by different management like Doellenwiese.
It's got individual competitors like Jogi Zank to entire families like the Dieterich Family with Zamp Thermados
I think it is a comprehensive collection of opinions of the Breed 110 years later.
Any input you have would be greatly appreciated on Interview Subjects etc. its all on my blog : www.interviewswithvit.blogspot.com/
Thanks,
Vit
The Project is still in the works but has input from some older kennels like the Heirs to Arminius Kennel and Winereau and the WildsteigerLand Kennel. From Karthago, to Morfelder Land and some newer kennels like Del Lupo Nero. From large kennels that have had to expand their name into 3 or 4 derivatives, to revived ones or some being run by different management like Doellenwiese.
It's got individual competitors like Jogi Zank to entire families like the Dieterich Family with Zamp Thermados
I think it is a comprehensive collection of opinions of the Breed 110 years later.
Any input you have would be greatly appreciated on Interview Subjects etc. its all on my blog : www.interviewswithvit.blogspot.com/
Thanks,
Vit
by Gustav on 11 February 2010 - 05:02
Cool...sign me up for a copy as I love first hand information.!!
by Pretorian on 11 February 2010 - 07:02
It was extremly informative...but something that i can't pass is, he mentioned abt putting the pups down. Now why in gods world would you do that. Ethically or rather from a humane point of view its not right at all to do something like that.
For all the knowledge he might have there are alternative means of rearing a good dog. I understand that he wants to breed what is correct and he is extremely passionate about the breed. But that does not give you the right to kill an innocent animal.
Just my thoughts and my personal opinion.
For all the knowledge he might have there are alternative means of rearing a good dog. I understand that he wants to breed what is correct and he is extremely passionate about the breed. But that does not give you the right to kill an innocent animal.
Just my thoughts and my personal opinion.
by Mystere on 11 February 2010 - 23:02
Thank you, Gustav, for sharing this!!
by Slamdunc on 12 February 2010 - 02:02
Gustav,
excellent post. Thanks for sharing that, I really enjoyed it.
Jim
excellent post. Thanks for sharing that, I really enjoyed it.
Jim
by sueincc on 12 February 2010 - 02:02
Vithala: I anxiously await the publishing of your book. I know it will be a good one. Will you have your interview with Hübner Werner in it as well? Is there anywhere on the web I can read that interview or will I have to wait for the book?
by vithala on 12 February 2010 - 05:02
Unfortunately, you will have to wait on the book. You can visit my blog: www.interviewswithvit.blogspot.com I actually am finished with the first draft , however I wanted to get a couple more interviews done. So I will be in Europe in a couple weeks to get some video footage as well with Mr. Hübner.
I tried to make it well balanced between all the elements in the breed, but I need to acquire more stuff.
I will be posting a video reel of sorts- kind of a promo for the DVD in the next 3 weeks.
but in my latest Blog post I asked for advice from readers and followers because I still have an opportunity to add a couple more stories before it prints. So any feedback would be great. Some of the names in the first draft are as follows:
ARTUR KRAMER- KARTHAGO
HELMUT RAISER -SV-2000
KARL FULLER- KIRSCHENTAL
Margit Vandorsen -VOM ARLETT
TINA MARTIN -ARMINUIS 200
Hassenborn
KOOS HASSING -TIEKERHOOK
HORST SIZTMAN -AROLSER HOLZ
UTE RAZCAK- SCHMIEDEGARTEN
FRANK HENNICKE -DOLLENWIESE
MARTINA MOSDORF- YOSCHY DOLLENWIESE
Otto Grasekamp -Stadfeld
BIRGITE SORBEK- MORFELDERLAND
JOGI -TEAM SPORT JOGI
Eugen Ecker- FASANARIE
H Werner- ASKO VD LUTTER
reinhard deitrich- Zamp Thermados
elke mueller- Del Lupo Nero
BERNARD FLINKS
ELMAR MANNES -LEIPHER MOOR
Mike rosseau- WINEREAU
Stoffelblick
Wildsteigerland
Dr. Wolfgang Henke
Nancy Denecke- Winner Sheepherding Comp 2009
Still to get:
Vegas Handler and Owner
von Batu
Fiemerick
talka Marda
DIETER TRAGER
and a couple more..............
I tried to make it well balanced between all the elements in the breed, but I need to acquire more stuff.
I will be posting a video reel of sorts- kind of a promo for the DVD in the next 3 weeks.
but in my latest Blog post I asked for advice from readers and followers because I still have an opportunity to add a couple more stories before it prints. So any feedback would be great. Some of the names in the first draft are as follows:
ARTUR KRAMER- KARTHAGO
HELMUT RAISER -SV-2000
KARL FULLER- KIRSCHENTAL
Margit Vandorsen -VOM ARLETT
TINA MARTIN -ARMINUIS 200
Hassenborn
KOOS HASSING -TIEKERHOOK
HORST SIZTMAN -AROLSER HOLZ
UTE RAZCAK- SCHMIEDEGARTEN
FRANK HENNICKE -DOLLENWIESE
MARTINA MOSDORF- YOSCHY DOLLENWIESE
Otto Grasekamp -Stadfeld
BIRGITE SORBEK- MORFELDERLAND
JOGI -TEAM SPORT JOGI
Eugen Ecker- FASANARIE
H Werner- ASKO VD LUTTER
reinhard deitrich- Zamp Thermados
elke mueller- Del Lupo Nero
BERNARD FLINKS
ELMAR MANNES -LEIPHER MOOR
Mike rosseau- WINEREAU
Stoffelblick
Wildsteigerland
Dr. Wolfgang Henke
Nancy Denecke- Winner Sheepherding Comp 2009
Still to get:
Vegas Handler and Owner
von Batu
Fiemerick
talka Marda
DIETER TRAGER
and a couple more..............
by duke1965 on 12 February 2010 - 15:02
gustav wrote
Remember, you can improve structure in a couple generations, but character and temperament take much longer to get back
I dont see the problem , if you have dogs with bad temperaments/caracters , just dont breed them , find them good homes
a bad dog in your kennel costs as much food and attention as a great one , so the choice is easy
if you dont have any great dogs , then dont be a breeder
Remember, you can improve structure in a couple generations, but character and temperament take much longer to get back
I dont see the problem , if you have dogs with bad temperaments/caracters , just dont breed them , find them good homes
a bad dog in your kennel costs as much food and attention as a great one , so the choice is easy
if you dont have any great dogs , then dont be a breeder
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