Asking for helpful advice re puppy health issues. - Page 2

if it is Toxoplasmosis or Neospora caninum which I would be surprised if it was I'm not  sure why they were thinking that?? . but if it is ,tell them to treat it with Baycox 

Am I to understand that the vet has already spayed this puppy at 5 months of age?!?!?!?!?  WTF?!?

While there certainly would be cause for concern if the nails of the hind feet were showing abnormal wear (wearing unevenly, or wear on the tops of the nails), that's no justification for spaying a puppy so damn early--the growth plates aren't even closed yet, for heaven's sakes!  While toxo or neospora are possible, neither are usually common in dogs and unless the dam was kept in conditions of high risk for either of these or there's been a problem in your area, neither one would likely be very high on a list of  most vet's differentials.  Sounds like a second veterinarian's opinion is desperately needed for this poor little pup.

hexe, Yes you read it right, it seem that the vet was in an awful hurry to spay and x-ray.

I always supply my puppy buyers with lots of info and try to arm them against vets who are ready to take their hard earned cash
and I ask them to contact me first before allowing any vet to perform any invasive procedure but they just don't listen.

Last year thankfully a puppy buyer rung me about a vet that wanted to perform Juvenile Pubic Symphiodesis on their puppy and since then I have been more aware of unscrupulous vets. (That is cetainly one vet who will remember my name.)

All of my dogs are kept in fantastic conditions -- a rural area -- I have 40 acres and purpose built kennels that were built only 2.5 years old. They are Hip and Elbow scored and also breed surveyed.

I am not like some breeders I know who never let puppy buyers visit them. Every puppy buyer is welcome here and can meet all 5 of my dogs and see where they are kept. Even though we live in a rural area we have no vermin problem - no rats and rarely catch any mice but we do have kangaroos, wombats, rabbits and wild ducks so if Toxo was suspect then I have no idea of any possible source of  infection.

I hope they didn't just go with this vet's opinion for such a drastic move as spaying at this age without doing more testing?!  You have to be careful when getting information from puppy owner's vets. I had one person tell me that a puppy I sold him was dysplastic at 4 months, becasue she was all of sudden limping. Even without xrays, their vet said that this puppy was dysplastic.  I told them to rest her & wait and see, as maybe she hurt herself by running around. Turns out, they were allowing her to launch on and off the couch!! She had indeed hurt herself - such idiots!!

And then another whose puppy that was getting UTIs and also had irritated eyes. Their vet told them that their puppy had an autoimmune disorder. "Huh?" I said. With these drama kings & queens, it turned out that the cedar bedding that they stuffed her doggie bed with was irritating her eyes and then the nasty floor at the doggy day care she was at, was giving her the UTI. But instead of looking at what they were doing, it's off on the witch hunt to burn me at the stake.

With my luck of bad, freaky and previously unseen things happening, I was open  that it was possible (although remote) these puppies had these problems, but it's your job as a breeder, who put all of the effort and planning into breeding healthy puppies,  to question their vet's opinion. They need to take their puppy to a specialist (is there a Univ. vet school they can go to?) and if you have a good vet, have xrays, and test results forwarded for your vet to look at also.

I am hoping that they are willing to have the x-rays evaluated by a specialist radiologist and I am willing to pay, At the moment I am waiting for the results of the blood test, if they are Negative then they can be sure I am at boiling point over the fact that they have just taken what the vet said for fact and had her spayed at 5 months old without calling me first.

I do know vets as I have worked with a good number over the years there are very few great ones but there are many that have very little knowledge when it comes to reading of  x-rays.

Sometimes I really do wonder why I breed. No I do know why I do it, I am looking for that one off puppy that is going to do me proud,( I have already had a couple of those) infact most of my puppies are making me proud just by being great family pets. I screen owners and tell them exactly what I expect in return for selling them a puppy and that is only that they stay in touch, not to desex until at least 12 months old for females, 18 months for males and never to let any vet do an invasive procedure without calling me first.

"Sometimes I really do wonder why I breed."

One thing in dealing with the public, in general, people suck. There are lots of good people, but when you come across a string of idiots, it's difficult. Eventhough you can do all the right things as a breeder, it's in times like these that one can really question why you put so much effort into it.

I keep a copy of the following posted on my wall so that I can read it when the going gets tough. It's long, so some may be in TLDNR (Too Long Did Not Read) mode. ;-)

The dog breeder is, well, an odd breed. I doubt there is anyone else out there who does something simply for the love of it, regardless of the heartache, financial strain, massive time commitment, and sheer exhaustion. So why do we do it? Many, many reasons. First and foremost are the love of the dogs themselves. No one else loves as unconditionally as our dogs. No one else allows us to hold them close whenever WE feel like, to cry on their shoulder, to talk over our problems. No one else in our lives listens as we sing off key without laughing, never ever tells us not to have that dessert, tells us our hair cut looks like something out of the seventies, or that, inevitably, our butt looks big. They are our companions, our friends the source of our smiles and invariably make us feel good at all times. Then there is the magic, the thrill, the wonderment of creating a beautiful dog. We study dogs from all over the world, we study pedigrees of thousands of dogs. We create, in our minds, the perfect dog that best brings our breed standard and working ability to life, then set out to create that same dog in life. We go into this knowing that we will never, ever succeed! Yet still we do it. We come close, and it thrills us. We exhibit that dog to judges and other breeders and trainers we respect and admire, and when they agree with our vision, it is the highest of highs. Having that beautiful creation receive an important win, well, what a rush. A thrill. We unabashedly admit to being adrenaline junkies that are addicted to the rush the wins give us. One the other hand, we are ridiculously proud of the puppies we produce that never see competition, for they too have a piece of our hearts.

Getting to that point, however, is hell. Every single successful dog breeder has a myriad of horror stories, that would make lesser people curl up in a fetal position and just give up. Staying up for 48 hours with a hysterical bitch, only to end up having to c-section her in the middle of the night (the only time emergency c-sections happen is when it costs the most..), to end up with three beautiful, but dead puppies. Having your bitch whelp, only to lose the puppy within 24 hours, and to watch, heartbroken, as your beloved bitch searches frantically for her puppy, inconsolable. Losing a bitch after whelping, and being the sole provider for those little puppies who are now totally dependent on you. Feeding and cleaning and loving them around the clock for days on end, sleep deprived, only to lose some at two weeks. Going off to the vet with a puppy that seemed "off", naturally one of the most fantastic puppies you have ever bred, only to go home without him due to bad news. Losing a puppy, inexplicably, at ten weeks. And, getting a call from the pathologist later saying wow, I've never seen anything like THIS. Having your most beloved bitch die in your arms due to toxic shock. Treating a beautiful, special, multi trial winning producing bitch for pyometra only to have her almost die and need an emergency spay. Having an entire litter born dead. Holding that puppy as it takes it last breath. Realizing that at the end of the year, we have paid more to our vets than we did to our mortgages. The heartaches never stop in this game of ours.

And then, we have the puppy buyers. We can't keep all our p

almost all vets push to spay as early as possible.......its their MO.

easy procedure they do it all the time and it is a great profit center for them.

deffinately not right!

ShadyLady,

That is so right, you have brought tears to my eyes, we are an odd breed.

HOW CAN WE PROTECT OUR PUPPIES AND THEIR OWNERS FROM UNSCRUPULOUS VETS.

I did try to recommend a vet to these people BEFORE they took her home but they said that they were quite happy with the one that treated their old dog so I could do no more.

I also had good news from another puppy buyer yesterday who thankfully contacted me about their puppy after having issues with their current vet who told them ( just on observations that their puppy would have to have hip dysplasia because he was a German Shepherd ). I sent them off to a vet that not only have I used but many GSD owners travel for hours to see and guess what ? He  is a very normal health, happy GSD puppy with a great temperament !!!!.  A very good result for some worried owners.

Geez, there are so many idiot vets out there! I'm glad you were able to maneuver and get that puppy owner to a vet that had some knowledge!  My breeder story was cut off due to length - but I'm glad that you read it. Here is the remainder in parts:

...And then, we have the puppy buyers. We can't keep all our puppies, and not all are worth keeping to a breeder. For these puppies we strive to find loving, forever homes. Often these pups are not up to the caliber of dog we are searching for. Reasons are many, and are different to each breeder. So, we invite strangers into our lives and homes to meet the dogs, to talk to them and their kids, to get a feel for the family and to try to deduce if they will make a great home for one of our kids. We are all not psychic, so we don't always succeed. By the time potential buyers come to see the puppies, the breeder has spent hundreds of hours with each puppy from the puppy being born into our hands, to daily handling, cleaning the box, and cleaning the box, and cleaning the box, introducing the pup to the grooming table, having his little nails done, being brushed, being cuddled, loved, held, running around the house, chasing cats, being growled at by bigger dogs, learning to eat, learning to go up and down stairs, having that first traumatic bath and blow dry, being tattooed or microchipped, going for a car ride, having a vet check, being observed, photographed, touched, watched, loved and adored. By ten weeks, these are not just puppies to us, they are hundreds of hours of our time, love and energy.

The buyers come up and see a happy, well adjusted puppy galloping around, and wagging his tail at everything. Some then plunk down hundreds of dollars, look at some paperwork and take their new puppy home, thinking boy, that breeder is just making out like a bandit! Then, they call within a couple of days to complain that the puppy cried all night. The puppy chewed something. The puppy nibbled on a person. The puppy isn't housebroken yet. The puppy was frightened by something strange. A few months go by, and then the calls start again, as the puppy is now five months old, gawky, and goofy absolutely in the throes of teenager-hood. The puppy chewed a tree in the yard. The puppy jumped on a neighbor’s kid. The puppy barks when left alone in the back yard. The puppy has some demodex on his face. The puppy had diarrhea all over the rug. The puppy walks funny. You didn't sell us a healthy dog....
 

...When breeders decide on a breeding, believe me, it is not done lightly. Usually breeding decisions begin when the dam to be is BORN, we are already considering her pedigree and her potential strengths and weaknesses and thinking of which direction to take with her, providing she does turn out. We breed the healthiest dogs to healthy dogs, delving into the pedigrees and the owners to find out potential problems, such as skin problems, hip problems, temperament, lackluster working ability and anything else we can think of. We also breed the most beautiful, driven dog to the dog who best compliments it, as ultimately a stunningly beautiful & driven dog who isn't healthy doesn't do us any good, just as a dog with superior health clearances and titles who has unsound conformation doesn't do us any good. We cross our fingers and hope for the best, based on the research we have done. If we could look into our crystal balls and foresee the future our jobs would be much easier, but even though we say that we have never run into this problem before, the odds are that we will, at some point. The worst phone call a breeder can get is the puppy you sold us has bad hips, or has bloated or has lupus, or something along these lines. As disheartening a health problem may be to the owner, for the breeder, however, it is the most devastating news. It implicates the sire, the dam, the dam’s dam, the littermates, in short, YEARS of the breeders work. After crying bitterly and sinking into a depression, they have to have the fortitude to get back up and begin an expensive and heart breaking process of identifying the carriers of the problem, and slowly, slowly attempt to clear their family of dogs. Many great dogs will have to be removed from the breeding program, many difficult; heart breaking decisions have to be made. There is no breeder around who has not hit this wall. If they haven't they will at some point in their careers. It is the odds we live with...