Advice required about puppy food - Page 2

How's he doing? 

Hi Jo

Murphy is doing so much better now - thanks for asking

Yesterday the breeder contacted me to let me know that a pup they had kept from the litter had been diagnosed with a giardia infection - our little fella has almost certainly had the same. Fortunately, when we took him to the vet last Monday he was prescribed metronidazole which is effective against bacterial but also protozoan infections - so this explains why we have seen an improvement in him.

We took him back to the vet today - he's gained a whole kilo in a week and was well enough to have his second vaccination. We've now got to start him on a weeks course of panacur treatment which also kills giardia. He's coping well with introducing his complete puppy food and is on about 1/4 complete puppy food to 3/4 i/d food

We are so happy with his progress - can't believe the difference a week has made

Thanks for the update.  Good to hear he is on the mend.  GSDs can change soooo much in just one week.  Happy, healthy pups are such a joy...by the way...where are the pics?  Must share pics! :-)  And you should put one of those darling pics in the avitar too!
Deb

My pup, now 16 weeks is 21kg and you can see his ribs. He was 8.5kg at 8wks and 2 days when I collected him. The main reason was he was on a natural diet.

Now, I would advise; Arden Grange Puppy Food, use Berrieswood as it's VAT free only £32 per bag. No Goats Milk it's too rich.
Since my pup was 5wks old he was fed raw chicken wings( Tesco's Value). I couldn't sustain the the natural diet so I went for the middle road.

Breakfast; Plain,dry, Arden Grange Puppy Biscuits.

Lunch, 5-6hrs later, 2 or 3 raw chicken wings only.

Supper, again 5-6hrs later, Arden Grange Puppy Biscuits with "Pets at Home" tripe. This is available at all Pets at Home stores in the UK. Its a bag of frozen and minced tripe which you defrost for 24hrs and use as 25% of the meal. Be warned dogs will run through brick walls for this stuff, we have had to rename my 11yr old Rot; Benjamin Button after we put him on a variation of this diet.

For me it's cost effective, a good balance and my pup is built like a brick sh*thouse, and my old Rott looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger on an off day.

I also feed my pup whole raw chicken carcasses which incidentally your local butcher will give you for free as he has to pay to have them taken away normally. Obviously a tactful donation to the charity box goes a long way.

Good Luck

Ronin

Im glad to hear he is doing so well .

Tanya

Good to hear he is improving.  I know that bacterial infections can really knock pups back.  I'm still disappointed with your breeder as I would never dream of letting a puppy go in that condition.  I know of a breeder of spaniels who held back a litter of 12 because she felt they were not doing well enough.

I would be careful in increasing quantities too much as the infections can leave them with delicate stomachs.  I dont know if your vet has suggested it but after infections I always give probiotics as they help to rebalance the gut.

Keep us updated on how he is going.

Jo

Hi all,

thanks again for your advice

..... think I spoke to soon - our poor little chap has not been so good over the last 24hrs. He'e been off his food since yesterday afternoon (just picking at the tiniest amounts). He's slept for most of the day today - and has also had dreadful diarrhoea. Fortunately he's drinking lots though.

I realise that his vaccination or the panacur could have made him feel a little unwell but I've also read about relapses of giardia in puppies. Anyway, I spoke to the vet today and he advised that we leave the panacur for a few days and see if he improves again - it may be that he would be better treated with an extended course of metronidazole.
Jo, yes we do have him on a probiotic also.

Ronnie1, Giardia can keep occurring. Yes, that's true. Panacur is the mildest wormer there is; that should not upset him, unless he has a lot of worms that can release toxins when they die off in his stomach/intestines, and THAT can make him feel sick. I would never never never have vaccinated this pup.

I had giardia on my property, and I had 2 pups get a bit dehydrated, but I treated it immediately and they didn't suffer size-wise after about a week. You couldn't tell the 2 that were sick from the others after a week.

Be careful w/an extended course of antibiotics. Great that you are giving probiotics as well.

Not to be gross, but what's the diarrhea like? Watery? Or like pudding?

Hi Jenni78

lol.... it had been more pudding like, however yesterday was very watery stuff - which he obviously had no control over passing - he normally lets us know when he wants to go outside for a poop but yesterday was explosive stuff everywhere. Today his energy levels seem to be back up and its more pudding like again - he has his appetite back this morning also - to be honest, apart from the diarrhoea, he seems fine this morning - a huge difference from yesterday.

We only got the second vaccination done on the vets recommendation, As for worms, he had been wormed every two weeks with drontal plus up until we brought him home.

Under all his lovely coat, he was like a bag of bones when we brought him home - I do think that he must have had the giardia for some time. When we collected him we were told he'd had diarrhoea for a couple of days but the breeder has now said he started with the runs just after his first vaccination - so that's ~6 days before we collected him.  - (just to say... I'm not mentioning this to bad name the breeder ( I would never put his name on here)-  I'm sure this is just a one off - I'm just pointing out that it looks like the infection wasn't caught early at all - maybe that is why it's proving a little more difficult to eradicate??)

Anyway,     Jenni - you said that panacur is very mild. Considering the improvement in him since yesterday - would you go ahead and worm today or would you wait a few days as the vet said. The only reason I ask is that if it is still the giardia that is causing the diarrhoea then whilst we are not giving the panacur, the parasite will continue to replicate in his digestive tract and make him feel even worse.

Thanks for your help

Fenbendazole is the mildest wormer I know, and the only safe enough to use on a pregnant animal, if that tells you anything. I had 2 VERY sick puppies that were started on it in the ICU when they were still on IV fluids. My guess would be the metronidazole is causing more problems than the Fenbendazole (Panacur).

How many days has he been on the Panacur? The course for giardia treatment with Panacur is 5-7 days if I remember right, but sometimes this doesn't eliminate it, and there are different theories as to why not. Some say you NEVER get rid of giardia, it simply lies dormant.

I had one pup contract giardia a few months after settling into her new home, and she had the same experience with the pudding to watery stools you are mentioning. Some of this is to be expected due to overall gastrointestinal upset from not only the giardia, but the chemicals as well. She, too, was vaccinated against my recommendations but at the vet's recommendations, and the problem lingered for 3 weeks.

I will suggest the same to you as I did them. Try some plain canned pumpkin- not pie filling-that has sugar in it- you want the plain canned pumpkin with no additives. Give him the pumpkin, and some boiled skinless chicken and white rice. This will help and I'm sure he'll love it. Also, he will be getting a lot more fluid from this than he would kibble, and it's easier to digest. Keep up with the probiotics; they are essential in this. When his stools are normal for 3 days or so, then try to add in a little kibble (I would get a high-quality grain-free one if you can) and slowly go from there.