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by vomeisenhaus on 20 March 2012 - 19:03
A real working dog is a dog that "works for his handler" no matter what the task whether it be sport, police , herding sar etc... do I feel all dog doing this as breed worthy? Not at all. And that includes many of the dual purpose police k9's. The capability of doing that is just the start when I look at parents of a puppy I am interested in. Thie "RIGHT HERDING GSD" is breed worthy just as any venue I mentioned. But not all ot them. Kurt
by vomeisenhaus on 20 March 2012 - 20:03
So what is wekening the breed which is what this post is an offshoot of? Is it all prey sport dogs? Is it sar dogs that are incapable of police work? Is it weak shepherds herding "ducks" at an akc event? Or is it all of the above.......
by GSDPACK on 20 March 2012 - 20:03
machinery, mass production, caging replaced the working dog in many ways. In order to maintain the breed's purpose "sports" were created. Versatility of the breed is still there just like specialization of the breed. Depends on what people want and need from a dog.
Since I grew up with raising horses, some were fenomenal fast (some were nasty) and they all found place in the world. Just because a horse bred to run on flat does not perform on flat, makes him any less of a horse for pulling a cart for an Organic farmer...
If a dog/ horse/ person finds his place in the world that makes them real.....
Since I grew up with raising horses, some were fenomenal fast (some were nasty) and they all found place in the world. Just because a horse bred to run on flat does not perform on flat, makes him any less of a horse for pulling a cart for an Organic farmer...
If a dog/ horse/ person finds his place in the world that makes them real.....
by clc29 on 20 March 2012 - 20:03
Kurt,
I was asking you a question not making a statement.
Of course they are breed worthy that's part of what this breed was developed for.
I can read just fine....but your statement,
"IMO if a dog is not capable of dual purpose police k9 work then it is not a breed worthy dog."
could be interpreted or implied to mean something different than you intended.
Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of listening to someone talk and hearing what they have to say on an internet forum. So really, all I was asking for was some clarification about the meaning of your statement.
Cheri
I was asking you a question not making a statement.
Of course they are breed worthy that's part of what this breed was developed for.
I can read just fine....but your statement,
"IMO if a dog is not capable of dual purpose police k9 work then it is not a breed worthy dog."
could be interpreted or implied to mean something different than you intended.
Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of listening to someone talk and hearing what they have to say on an internet forum. So really, all I was asking for was some clarification about the meaning of your statement.
Cheri
by vomeisenhaus on 20 March 2012 - 20:03
You were asking a question but implied that I probably didn't think a herding gsd was breedworty. You assumed something without no basis behind it. This is why the gsd is being weakened. People assume a schh3 dog is breed worthy because of its title which many or not. People assume a sar gsd is a breedworthy dog and many are not. There are dogs in every sport and working venue that are not breedworthy yet these very dogs get bred everyday. You said many police k9's can not make a sar dog. That is why I don't think sar dogs are a good candidate for a breeding program. Ill take the gsd k9 that you don't think has the proper temperament to be a sar dog but you couldn't "give me" a sar dog that couldn't make a police k9. Kurt
by vomeisenhaus on 20 March 2012 - 20:03
There is one thing you have to ask yourself cheri. That police k9 you don't think has the temperament to be a sar dog.... could that be his training????? And the sar dog that can't make a police k9 I can tell you has nothing to do with his training.. Right now I am questioning your actual experince. Kurt
by vomeisenhaus on 20 March 2012 - 21:03
In the end. No I do not think women are weakening the breed. There is a a multitude of reasons why the gsd is where it is today. Kurt
by clc29 on 20 March 2012 - 21:03
Kurt,
Thank you for replying.
I am the first to admit that I do not have a great deal of experience.
I have been on a K9 SAR team for the last 2 1/2 years and have been on enough missions and trained enough days to have worn the soles off of two pairs of hiking boots. Does that qualify me as experienced? IMOP....not really. I have been training with a Schutzhund Club under Kevin Sheldahl as the training director since March of 2011, so yes I am very much a novice in that arena. The statement I made about Dual purpose K9 and SAR dogs come from a conversation I had with Kevin, not from actual experience in handling a police K9. I know I have a great deal to learn, but I am willing and eager to learn. I read everything I can get my hands on, listen to people who have a great deal more experience than I and I'm not afraid to ask questions or accept constructive criticism.
Usually when I post a thread it is because I want to read what other people have to say about a topic or learn from their experience. Yes I know, I have to be careful about believing what people say here, after all I do not know for sure that they know what they are talking about.
Anyway, I thought I would tell you a little about myself so you know me a little better.
Cheri
aka..the newbie
PS...If you have the time sometime, I would sure like to get your thoughts and opinions about Troll.
Thank you for replying.
I am the first to admit that I do not have a great deal of experience.
I have been on a K9 SAR team for the last 2 1/2 years and have been on enough missions and trained enough days to have worn the soles off of two pairs of hiking boots. Does that qualify me as experienced? IMOP....not really. I have been training with a Schutzhund Club under Kevin Sheldahl as the training director since March of 2011, so yes I am very much a novice in that arena. The statement I made about Dual purpose K9 and SAR dogs come from a conversation I had with Kevin, not from actual experience in handling a police K9. I know I have a great deal to learn, but I am willing and eager to learn. I read everything I can get my hands on, listen to people who have a great deal more experience than I and I'm not afraid to ask questions or accept constructive criticism.
Usually when I post a thread it is because I want to read what other people have to say about a topic or learn from their experience. Yes I know, I have to be careful about believing what people say here, after all I do not know for sure that they know what they are talking about.
Anyway, I thought I would tell you a little about myself so you know me a little better.
Cheri
aka..the newbie
PS...If you have the time sometime, I would sure like to get your thoughts and opinions about Troll.
by alboe2009 on 21 March 2012 - 00:03
Mentalities.............................................. doesn't matter if it's a woman or a man. Testosterone or progesterone. OP question is/was what is our definition of a real working dog. Not assumptions, presumptions of what one wrote, what one thought, what one meant or what one read or thought they read between the lines. It's amazing that doesn't matter the thread, doesn't matter the OP and it doesn't matter what the original topic was. There's a high percentage of flak, crap, BS or whatever you want to call it.
To the OP; WORKING means WORKING. Be it herding, PSD, Explosive Detection, SAR and so on. Just because I didn't list something else doesn't mean I didn't think of them as WORKING!
It's a shame (for the most) we just can't get along. Now if there's bad blood or a history amongst commentors then I don't know/didn't know that.
I'll say this much; What makes an expert? In any venue or job? For me it's going to be KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE and TRAINING. So for clc29; 21/2 years can cover the three I listed. LONGEVITY in MY eyes DOES NOT CONSTITUTE EXPERTISE. It's a shame that any thread has to have a pissing contest.
We need to start a thread strictly for pissing contests and calling people out on the carpet!
To the OP; WORKING means WORKING. Be it herding, PSD, Explosive Detection, SAR and so on. Just because I didn't list something else doesn't mean I didn't think of them as WORKING!
It's a shame (for the most) we just can't get along. Now if there's bad blood or a history amongst commentors then I don't know/didn't know that.
I'll say this much; What makes an expert? In any venue or job? For me it's going to be KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE and TRAINING. So for clc29; 21/2 years can cover the three I listed. LONGEVITY in MY eyes DOES NOT CONSTITUTE EXPERTISE. It's a shame that any thread has to have a pissing contest.
We need to start a thread strictly for pissing contests and calling people out on the carpet!
by vomeisenhaus on 21 March 2012 - 00:03
I apologize for my quote earlier cheri. It was uncalled for. I've reading to much crap on here lately...lol. I'm in florida for the winter with a lot of idle time. To damn hot to train during the day. Ill pm you cheri.
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