Best of Breed Collie at Westminster sired by a blind-deaf double merle... Opinions. - Page 2

I think many commenting here do not realize that the Collie is blind and deaf because of a having two copies of the color gene, Merle.  If this animal were bred to a non-merle Collie, there would be almost no risk of blindness or deafness.

The practice of breeding two merles together is what disgust me.  But studding a double merle is no more disturbing than the whole premise of AKC showing.

The AKC/parent breed clubs put quite a few restrictions on what a dog must be to receive their awards. In the case of a GSD, I must present a dog of accepted color, with accepted # of teeth. The ears must be upright. So I can conclude that they (breed clubs) can and do regulate what a dog should be to receive awards. There is nothing that stops the breed clubs/AKC from requiring any type health check appropriate to the breed. It just would not be in the interest of profit to do so.

There are few segments of society where ethics are left up to the individual. Banks have regulators, Law Enforcement has internal affairs departments.

When ethics are left solely up to the breeder, the result is going to be dogs like this Collie. There are just too many people who can set ethics aside long enough to cash a check. Being a dog breeder does not change this.

AKC showing is what it is. Some like it, some don't. With GSD's there are alternatives like SV shows and Sch trials. In many other breeds AKC or UKC shows are all there is. To each his own.

I think breed clubs can dictate terms for specialty class eligilbilty and awards at specialty shows and for breed awards offered to members only, but not for all breed AKC show awards. A GSD can't be a GSDCA GV without clear hips and maybe some other clearances,  but it can win an AKC BIS without any clearances as long as it's AKC registered and entered in an eligible class.

The breed clubs can do only so much too. In the end, as inadequate as it may seem, it's still boils down to the matter of ethics (or not). Look at all the rules the SV has in place and still there are plenty of unhealthy German dogs running around this country producing puppies.  Can't legislate morality.......anyone who wants to cheat will find a way, rules or no rules.

As upset as I get with the AKC and unethical breeders, I liked most of the GSD's that were shown! There were 2 or 3 of the typical long narrow floppy legged dogs but the rest were very nice and almost German looking! A good change I think! The GSD that won was VERY nice. Although, I did not find this dog in the OFA data base.... : ( AND... there was only 1 dog out of that kennel even listed on the OFA and that was for research DNA not hips or anything else!!! A shame in and of its self being a top winning dog and we don't know the hip status!
Debby

I think Capi was bred in Mexico. Not sure if they use OFA  there.

He looked too young for OFA??  We'll see.  Nan

Fenrir, I'm with you. There is a rant within me that cannot begin to find the words to come out.

To take out the rant and boil it down to pure showing. There is nothing to say that this stud dog is breed worthy (and how the hell can he be???) He has never been able to set foot in a show ring. How could a judge possibly judge his 'expression' which is a feature of ALL dogs judged, every breed should exhibit a particular expression. This poor dog can express nothing with sightless eyes. By various admissions the dog does not move well. Maybe because he is blind? It is a disability that tends to compromise movement.  He probably has a wonderful ear set. They don't function, but they look divine. Sure he might pass that on. Terrific coat, and a colour to die for.

The purpose of these shows, like the UK Crufts show was surely to determine the dog with the best genes to carry the breed forward. Strangely enough where this dog appears in the pedigree of some dogs they suffer or have produced dogs with deafness, blindness, or both.

S**t it turned into a bit of a rant.

Blitzen, usually I agree with you, but if it takes legislation to prevent this then I would support it 100%. The thing is the breeders that do breed ethically would be unaffected anyway because they would never, ever consider doing this - would they? 

We've been fighting for years for our UK KC to introduce mandatory breed specific health tests before litters can be registered. We WANT it.

In the US, parent breed clubs are expected to know their breeds intimately and set down the rules;even then they could only apply those rules to their members.  I'm not arguing that it would be a bad thing to require health clearances appropriate to each breed. It's just not ever going to happen in the US, so we need to depend on the ethics of the breeder and educate ourselves before buying a dog or using one at stud.

I promise you that a secret vote taken right here asking  breeders to vote on regulations allowing the AKC or the GSDCA to dictate which health tests they need to do so they could register a litter would fail to pass by a strong majority. There are also the imported dogs to consider. Would the SV agree to follow AKC or GSDCA health regulations so dogs bred there are eligible for AKC registration?

On the surface it looks good, but there are way too many barriers in the US to make it work. I hope the UK KC can get it done. I hear that breeders there are doing a better job with some of the brachocephalic breeds since the BBC expose aired. When one looks at the Peke that won Best at Westminster, one has to wonder what  the hell are breeders thinking?



 

Blitzen, I do understand where you are coming from, but some parts we will have to disagree on. health checks need not be required for registration, only awards. And it is within the scope of the breed clubs to institute them for their awards.

As far as what people in the U.S. will accept, UScA and GSDCA/WDA members are from the U.S. and they not only accept the H/E/title/character requirements for breed worthiness, they embrace it. Meeting these basic requirements to receive the highest awards from these organizations is meeting no resistance as far as I know.

I just do not accept that breed clubs, everyone of them set up for the "betterment" of the breed can set any requirement for the outward appearance of the breed but reject any responsibility for the health.

The SV would have no responsibility for producing dogs that meet any U.S. requirement (if there were any), it would be up to the individual dog to meet any requirement after he got here.

jmo,

Rik