aint got time - Page 2

Myracle  asked

Are those two Pastors even literate enough to be reading and interpreting the Bible? 

My reply  Myracle,are you biblical literate enough to ask such a question?

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;but unto us,which are saved it is the power of God.  God hath chosen the weak things to confound the things that are mighty.

Which things also we speak.not in the words of mans wisdom teaches,but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God;for they are foolishness unto him;neither can he know them because they are spiritual discerned.

   gouda

Reading and interpreting the Bible .......

Fascinating question in general.....Myracle is Jewish.
And the time a Rabbi puts into study ...takes the
better part of his life. Not just the Torah but
other books the Mishna , Kabbolah and several other
text.....but ultimately it is the Holy Spirit that
teaches the unwritten language of God.
Mose's stuttered, Muhammad was illiterate,
Peter was a Knucklehead ..yet they found their way.
The trend seems to be.... God acts in such a way
as not to glorify the preacher but word it self.
All the Glory to God the Most high.

FWIW this topic has been discussed here too.. starting on this page...

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=517701&pagen=18 

Truth is like an arrow and the path it takes is steight narrow.....BD
You are going to serve some body...

gouda....I am a sinner just like the rest.

R1......I like RS's commit...it's not personal, just open for dialog.
Malarky is something that effects us all, now more than any other
time....Jesus was the champion of truth, but he said it's going to
really piss some people off. Think about it, there must be a higher
love. I will look inside my heart , you look in side yours.

MM. Which comment of RS are you speaking of??,,,Also, I don't quite understand your post. Would you please clarify what you mean to say..:)

Also, I don't quite understand your post. Would you please clarify what you mean to say..:) 

Oh good, I'm not the only one. 

aint got time by gouda on 22 November 2011 - 17:11	gouda Post: 314 of 314 Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:28 pm
Myracle  asked Are those two Pastors even literate enough to be reading and interpreting the Bible? My reply  Myracle,are you biblical literate enough to ask such a question? For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;but unto us,which are saved it is the power of God.  God hath chosen the weak things to confound the things that are mighty. Which things also we speak.not in the words of mans wisdom teaches,but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God;for they are foolishness unto him;neither can he know them because they are spiritual discerned.    gouda
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I don't think you need to be Biblically literate to notice that the Pastors on that site don't have a good grasp of English grammar - just literate.
I'm assuming [always a risky venture, I know] that their Bibles are in English, and a more formal Engish than most are used to, at that.

If their parishoners receive guidance from them that they find useful and enriching to their lives, that's really all that matters. 

I was just a little surprised that someone would post a website representing themselves and their fellowship, and not take care to ensure that the spelling/grammar was correct.  I would hope, at a minimum, that a member of their flock would step up and offer to correct the mistakes so that the congregation is represented in the best light possible. 

After all, the point of having a website like theirs is generally to attract new members to the congregation in the hopes of furthering their mission of bringing souls to Jesus Christ for Salvation, is it not?

When I research things, be it a new Temple, a plumber for the busted pipe in my basement, or a Karate class for my son, one of the things that will immediately remove a candidate from the running is a website or other promotional material that is rife with grammatical or spelling errors.

NOT because I am an elitest or think that my spelling/grammar is always perfect, but because it says something about the people who are putting the information forth.  It speaks to their attention to detail.  Maybe it's just the left-overs from my Military service, but to me, attention to detail speaks volumes about character.
 
If something is truly important to you, you take the time to ensure that it is correct.  There's nothing wrong with having poor grammar skills, and no, I don't consider it a reflection of intelligence at all.  But if you're taking the time to represent yourself in an attempt to attract people, you don't do a half-ass job.  You get whatever extra help you need to ensure that the job is done RIGHT.

My thoughts on seeing that website were "Wow, that's really, really bad English.  Are they literate enough to read the Bible?  I mean, my 7 year old with a learning disorder knows that the grammar on that sit is incorrect.  If they aren't highly literate, does that hinder their ability to understand certain passages of the Bible, especially given that sometimes understanding requires us to look to the original meanings of words used in the older Latin, Greek or Hebrew translations for full understanding? Or do they preach as they were taught in their own church as children, relying less on the Bible and more on experience, feeling the Spirit and the principles they were brought up in? 

I've nothing against preaching by tradition, I suppose. If I was approaching their congregation, I would worry however, how they would help me address modern issues that aren't directly addressed in the Bible.  For example, is it a sin for a woman to wear pants?  The Bible says it is, but is deeper understanding of the passages and their context important?  Does one need to have at least a firm grasp of English to explore that?

What does it mean when it says that God hung the stars on the firmament?  Is that literal?  Is it allegorical?  Could they help me understand these things?

Okay, so the Pastors are home-grown, and for a lot of people, they PREFER home-grown pastors.  It speaks to what they desire from a church community, and from a moral leader.  They want simplicity, not complexity.

But what sort of congregation do they have that no one else stepped forth to help fix that?  Did no one in the congregation notice, because they're equally illiterate?  Or did people notice, and decide to ignore it?  What sort of fellowship would that be, if there were members who didn't step forward to help lift a brother up and contribute to the betterment of the community?"
 

My original post was glib, yep.
This is the OT forum, after all.

TL;DR:
I don't think you need to be highly literate to preach.
People can reach an understanding of faith, and use their understanding to benefit the lives of others, even if they can't read a single written word.
I come from a religious tradition that prides itself on continuous study, so the dissonance between the two approaches prompted what was perhaps an unintentionally insulting reponse.

aint got time by MAINLYMAX on 22 November 2011 - 17:11	MAINLYMAX Post: 1517 of 1518 Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 01:53 am
Reading and interpreting the Bible....... Fascinating question in general.....Myracle is Jewish. And the time a Rabbi puts into study ...takes the better part of his life. Not just the Torah but other books the Mishna , Kabbolah and several other text.....but ultimately it is the Holy Spirit that teaches the unwritten language of God. Mose's stuttered, Muhammad was illiterate, Peter was a Knucklehead ..yet they found their way. The trend seems to be.... God acts in such a way as not to glorify the preacher but word it self. All the Glory to God the Most high.
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One of the things that sets Jewish religious tradtion apart from many others is the notion of arguing with God.
It is ingrained in our traditions, our teachings, and our faith.

The Rabbis point to the Prophet Abraham himself as an example of this.  When God spoke to Abraham and told him of the impending destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham argues with God.  He makes a wager with God that if he can find first 50 [and then slowly negotiating down to 10] righteous people within the city, God will spare its inhabitants.  Of course, Abraham does not find those 10 righteous people, and the cities are destroyed.  We are taught that blind faith and subserviance are detestable in God's sight.  We are taught that God wants his people to challenge, to ask questions, to seek truth rather than platitudes, to reach our own understanding.

That is why Jews do not rely on Tanakh alone, but also the Talmud, and as you said Max, oral history.
The Talmud again illustrates the tradition of our people to challenge, to question, to seek their own understanding, as the Rabbi's debates are laid out.

Israel means "wrestling with God".

Is the Jewish way the "right" way, or the "only" way?
As a Jew, I do not believe that there is any one right way to live one's life righteously.

..Thinking, Thinking ,Thinking,,

Myracle..I like your post..It is insightful,,,I am thinking on it..:)

Hi Myracle

One of todays top christian artist received 25.000 dollars for singing only twice.
Paul and Silas sang one night in a prison.   Their song was not rendered with the skill or harmony of that of  the Christian artist,but its tenderness touched the heart of the keeper of the prison and echoed through the angel crowded streets of heaven.

            gouda