Sable + Saddleback = Blacks and Bi-Colours?

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by GranvilleGSD on 09 September 2011 - 04:09

Love this chart, very helpful. http://www.ehretgsd.com/genetics.htm And it looks like if both parents carry for black, which in order to get black puppies they would, then they could also produce only sables and black/tans, not bi-colors.

by Jaclyn4238 on 09 September 2011 - 04:09

Am I reading correctly that you cannot get solid blacks and Bi Colors in the same litter?

by BlackthornGSD on 09 September 2011 - 04:09

j.c. carroll:

Even if you use the new thinking of bicolor being created by a modifier gene instead of being its own pattern, it's very unlikely that you'd get a bicolors and solid blacks. I kinda went through the theory on page 5 of the thread: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=506411&pagen=5

by darylehret on 09 September 2011 - 05:09

Your new thinking perhaps, but not mine. This happens to be one of two precise examples of why I have already explained that theory does not work. Melanistic black and tan is the obvious probability, along with blacks and sables. If there weren't multiple sires involved (one carrying bicolor), then I'll join your bandwagon.

by BlackthornGSD on 09 September 2011 - 06:09

Daryl, are you so determined to disagree that you're not even reading what I wrote?

by AmbiiGSD on 09 September 2011 - 08:09

I'm going to sit firmly in the 'Tan-point' camp as far as 'bi-colour' goes.

How many times have we all had this arguement? and how many times are people only looking at one breed, we need to look at how tan-point is carried in other breeds to understand the genes better.

As to what the pups are, I'd rather wait and see.

by pod on 09 September 2011 - 10:09

You're in good company Ambi :)

It has been known, from breeding data, that the saddle allele doesn't exist in A locus for some years. Malcolm Willis abandoned use of a^s as far back as 1991, in his last GSD book. And now we have DNA evidence to confirm that this is the case.

by JakodaCD OA on 09 September 2011 - 11:09

just to add to my post,,there were no blacks in the litter my bi color came out of, there were a couple bi's, a couple black/tans and a couple sables..

by eichenluft on 09 September 2011 - 12:09

the OP described the black/red female as coming from black/red parents, and black/red g-parents... so where would the black come from then?

anyway as I said I doubt the puppies are bicolor - it can be hard to tell if black/tan puppies will be bicolor or not for several weeks. solid black... that's the question IMO. where did that come from, with a female who apparently "shouldn't" carry black? do you have a pedigree to look at?

by darylehret on 09 September 2011 - 13:09

Maybe I am being stubborn, but when put to paper the explanation doesn't match realworld results and contradicts itself in some circumstances. I'm open minded, but I won't blindly believe something I can't understand. I'm skeptical, and for what I believe are good reasons.

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Sable + Saddleback = Blacks and Bi-Colours? - Page 2

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