black shepherds that have tan on the toes. - Page 2

no dog from two black parents, or with no black/tan gene, can be a bicolor dog. MOST black dogs have some tan or grey hairs between toes at LEAST, if not some up their legs. They are not considered bicolor. Bicolor is a black/tan with bicolor modifyer gene. There is no such thing as a black with bicolor modifier. They are just black dogs with some fading or tan on their legs. Bicolors will always have tan on the vent, if not on their faces and elsewhere on their bodies - blacks will never have these markings. And, if you think a black with tan on the legs is a bicolor, see if they ever produce a bicolor when bred to a black, or any color with no black/tan or bicolor gene - they won't, because they are not bicolor. molly

From the Sahiela color genetics page, which is a pretty nice little resource: http://www.geocities.com/sahiela2/colors.html "Solid black is recessive to both agouti and two-tone patterned dogs.A dog must carry the gene for solid pattern to produce solid blacks. White is a gene independent of these three genes that determine pattern in the colored dogs. White will be more fully discussed later. One thing I do not understand about the solid blacks is why some remain solid black as adults,and others have "bleedthrough" shadings of ground color,usually at the back of the lower legs and inside the rear legs. Everyone I have seen has been solid black at birth,and on the ones that ended up with "bleedthrough" developed the shading as they grew. Some of these can be difficult to distinguish from the very dark bicolors by looking at them. Sel Ch Die Herzogins JJ was an example of a black with quite a it of shading in his legs,yet he was genetically solid black. I have found that the blacks with bleedthrough and blacks that stay black may be born in the same litters. I would like more data to answer questions on this. For instance,if two solid blacks without any shadings are bred together-do the progeny all end up solid black,or can some of them end up with bleedthrough? I have found that the color of the bleedthrough does indicate the ground color the black dog will produce if bred to a dog of the agouti or two-tone pattern." So, the "marked" black dogs mentioned in this thread could be either genetically black or bicolor. However, I still believe the dog in the initial question (looked black, but with silver undercoat) is a bicolor.

the undercoat being light in this dog could be a coat that is dead - undercoat blowing. The undercoat of my (true) bicolor female would turn grey when it was ready to blow - it was black otherwise. My other bicolor dog's undercoat remains black regardless of blowing or not. I have seen a bicolor dog whose entire undercoat was grey, couldn't see it unless the dog was wet, or fur ruffled up to reveal the undercoat - I thought perhaps the dog was actually a sable. But when presented to Linda Shaw, she says he is bicolor. The best way to tell a bicolor from a black with brown on the legs/feet is to lift the tail and look at the vent - if there is brown around the vent = bicolor. Blacks will not have tan around the vent or on the head/facial area. molly

my black female has no tan around her vent. her sire is all black and dam is blk and tan. she carries the black gene. my female has no other tan anywhere. the silver is in the undercoat. can't see it unless you ruff up her coat. tan in between toes is light. she is reg'd as black from her breeder.

If some of you got articles and pictures about collors in German shepherd please send it to me, Jotinoco@ig.com.br

If you have a dog from "black" parents which get some tan hair to it's body - it isn't a proof that black dogs can have tan hair - it only proves that one of the dog's parents were also extremely black bi-color. Genetically black dogs are completely black. They only can have some WHITE markings, on chest or paws, but never grey or tan.