Are Pohranicini Straze lines that great? - Page 2

I know that this breeder has been in working GSDs for many many years and has done many breedings with very established top lined dogs....from talking to people who have been in the sport for 10/15/20 years, the sport has changed the type of dog being bred...many of the "old timers" did not want a "sport dog" - they want a dog more balanced in active/social/real aggression or even more heavily weighed to that aspect. At this time you will not see many people doing sport schutzhund with DDR type dogs, they are not as quick to mature or easy to train - IN GENERAL!!!- and therefore are not as common in sport clubs - the syle of training favored now is much better suited - AT A YOUNGER AGE - for the more popular Euro working lines! I had a long conversation last night with the owner of my [mostly] DDR female's sire about this very thing!!!!!!!!!! I don't think you should worry that the pup will be sleeve oriented as much as you should be that you can be patient, nurturing, and not expect an obedience dynamo at 12 months!!!

I'm a bit new to the board, so thanks GSDfan for pointing me in the right direction to see the pedigree. Ginta looks like a fine bitch. I'm pretty familiar with these bloodlines, as I've been into Czech dogs for 12 years & would have no problem getting a pup out of Ginta myself. To add a bit to Kougars' statement, I have 2 PS line youngsters I'm working with now. One is a Xac PS son, the other is a dog of my own breeding, a Grim PS grandson. Patience, patience & more patience. Both are doing quite well, & my personal goal is top competition. I've also had other GSD's but none that have bonded to me quite like my Czech dogs have. To add that while my Czech dogs haven't been the greatest scoring dogs in the SchH world, I'm not the best handler, & I don't have the best help at my club either. That's simply the reality of my situation. What I will say though is when I go on the field, folks tend to stop & watch, in part because of the strength & power my dogs bring to their protection work. I would also like to think that the bond/relationship I have also plays a part into the way we work. One thing I've found is that these lines, seem to be a bit more handler sensitive. That doesn't mean soft, hard, scared etc...they tend to react faster to something you're trying to teach than say other lines do. Sometimes it's positively, sometimes it's negatively. So from that comes training styles, how the people you train with understand & help you etc. Good luck

Bullet, I agree. I also have a Xac PS son. Loves bite work and tracking, not so keen on obedience. Still have to use tug to make him want to work. 28 months old and still full of play. Very level headed. Excellent watch dog. Not a sleeve dog. Love him to death.

Hex, is my Xac PS x Chayma PS son, Is a bit older than your guy. Born the end of Jan 04. He recently earned his BH, & I'm hoping for the SchH1 soon. Crushing grips, a bit of an attitude, & very intense in his protection work. He's a dog that turns heads when he comes out of the crate. He's actually very forgiving, but he wouldn't be for an inexperienced handler. That's how I got him in first place...he was a bit much for his former owner. Tracking is probably his weakest area at this point. It's passable, but not where I think it can be. Obedience is real strong, as is the protection work. Hex seems to be a pretty intelligent dog, but I'm real careful to be very clear with what's being taught him. What I've found with Hex, & my other dogs is if there is clarity in the training, the understanding/success comes about very quickly. I'm sure every trainer will tell you that, but in my case, I actually take the time to explain my thought process to whomever I'm working with before the dogs leave the truck. It doesn't matter which phase I'm working on either. I have found if I make sure that the folks I'm training with know what to expect from me, things move along pretty well for everyone. Anyway as you can all tell, I'm really into the Czech lines.

Blueskyekennels I was not saying that it was a runt or anything bad with the puppy JUST stating that most (PS lines) go for higher. I am all for gettting a great deal personally. Looked at the web site and he has some really nice lines . Chuligan lines are nice - his son Pluto (at Jinpo) has made a name for himself.and has produce many nice dogs. I personally owned a Blatenskeho Zamku offspring and to date we still talk about him. One of the best working dogs I have owned. More defense then normal but turned on and off like a light. and had the best obedience I ever had in a Czech dog. Personally I booked mark the site for the later on, Thanks EK

Personally I love the Czech lines for what other people have stated above. Great protection routines, crushing grips, nice civil drive coupled with pretty nice prey drive. I have a 20 month old female out of Norbo Ben Ju and Exa z. Esagilu both dogs go back on z PS lines. My female is a stick of dynamite. Lightening fast to the bite with insane bite strength for a dog of her size (66lbs.). She takes corrections well but will also get a little handler aggressive if she feels the correction was unwarranted. She learns everything fairly fast, already has her BH and should hopefully have her ScH1 in October if all goes as planned she'll try for her ScH2 in November (that is if everything falls into place of course). Anyway you jsut need to decide if these are the lines for you or not, I know it is definitely the llines I prefer and I will definitely continue to own them.

"Both are doing quite well, & my personal goal is top competition. I've also had other GSD's but none that have bonded to me quite like my Czech dogs have. To add that while my Czech dogs haven't been the greatest scoring dogs in the SchH world, I'm not the best handler, & I don't have the best help at my club either. That's simply the reality of my situation." Anyone venture to guess the percentages of top scoring dogs from different countries/lines? Just curious. Bullet, how did your other (non-czech) dogs finish, compared to how the other czech dogs you have had finish - meaning, how well did they work for you and reach the goals you set? Do you feel you're a better trainer, or just getting dogs that match what you want?The 2 young ones you are now working - better than past ones you have had? As for the help at the club not being the best - Do you think it's the helpers' (or club members) lack of experience in SchH in general, or just not understanding those lines? Maybe there are nearby clubs and seminars where your dogs can get worked by others. Perhaps your helpers can also meet with some of the teaching helpers in your region (wherever it is). Just curious if it is someone just not understanding quirks of these lines as opposed to something else.

I would say far & away the biggest percentage of top dogs are West German working lines. This could be an interesting new topic, as I am of the belief that the top dogs, are not the real hard dogs/lines a lot of folks in the working community want. I do think you have to have a good understanding of your animal, have people that will work with you, maybe a coach of some kind & certainly a certain amount of experience. That would be a start, as I'm sure there are more things to add. I've had my share of nice scores, & national events. I would say it's fair to say as I gain more experience, my dogs scores seem to be improving as well. Understanding the subtle things with the Czech lines adds to our success that for sure. I also think it's fair to say these youngsters are better dogs than I have had in the past, if for no other reason than I know more about what combinations work best for me, & my approach to training. My club has been around for quite a while, going on 13 years. It's a good strong group, but I'm being realistic about my friends. A lot of folks are what I would call kind of kennel blind when they talk about their respective group. Most of the helpers have been around me for at least as long as the club has been around if not longer. No disrespect to the folks that work with me, but I think the problem is that while the guys really put everything into their work, there are only a handful of excellent training helpers in America. Then a few more very good helpers, still more good helpers.....etc. I would say my guys are above average. I believe some of the folks we bring in show our guys some ideas that improve all the work, for the entire club. So it's a constantly evolving process. I actually came back home this evening from working with a friend from another club. Another friend from Finland taught us a few different training techniques recently, so we were putting these ideas into our training programs with pretty good success. So this might turn into a real good option for me.

No disrespect to the folks that work with me, but I think the problem is that while the guys really put everything into their work, there are only a handful of excellent training helpers in America. Then a few more very good helpers, still more good helpers.....etc. Ok, brings a new thread.