Color Trend When Breeding - Page 2

I guess it's a trend, if you call the last 100 years of working dogs a trend.  The only thing about color that matters to (good) working line breeders is nothing, all that matters is that  the dogs are within the standard and have dark pigment.

I think that when Daryl made this statement:

"I had a b&t working dog at one point, but retired it from my program, selecting against the color, only because I didn't want to appear to be associated with showline dogs. My bad."

I think he may be speaking for a certain type of breeder in the non-showline segment who do base some of their breeding criteria on color.  How many I would have no idea.  In selecting a black and tan dog out of a breeding program solely on the basis of it's color so as not "to appear to be associated with showline dogs" gives some evidence that "color blindess" is not a deficit found only in showline aficionados.

In another thread, I think centered around some Czech bloodlines, Hans of Alpine K9 made the observation that a male dog that he thought had much to contribute to the breed, and who is black and tan, would likely not be used very much because he wasn't "trendy".  I presume he was referring to this dogs coloration not being inline with the "trendiness" of sables in non-showline dogs.

I am not a breeder and personally I don't care if breeders factor in color while making breeding decisions.  It is a wide world though and there are still quite a few black and tans around who are not of showline descent.  Maybe the folks who are breeding those dogs just aren't in sync with the fashions of the day?

SteveO  

Not to sound too defensive, but that's not entirely accurate and I'm not totally blind.  I would breed in a heartbeat to certain black&tan producers, like Eick von der berger Hochburg or Tyson von der Schiffslache, and probably more if I could think of any that were good enough.

I've also selected against carriers of the longcoat gene, so what does that mean?  Producing long coats is clearly against the standard, but at the same time, really has little bearing on working ability.  Just an inconsequential preference, IMO, that probably should never have been a breed disqualification in the first place.  I'm not against 'em, I just don't particularly want 'em for myself.

If you can afford to be more selective to your personal tastes and yet maintain a higher standard, you can consider all the "trivial extras" your heart desires.  I'm not talking about barely meeting standard, but of considering more of the "whole dog", rather than the "whole dog, with the exception of color."  It's not like I would exclude a black&tan from my breeding in favor of a dog that produced more poorly from a working perspective.

Eick von der berger Hochburg  has a son and daughter that are black and red sadlebacks.
 
the rest of the litter were sables......

I inquired about getting one or two of those pups from Eurosport, but Taunya won't sell to me, resenting that my wife and I replaced every dog we ever attained from her.  My lifetime commitment to a dog, depends on the dog, and not the breeder's wishfulness.  How many times has their buddy Mike kept a dog it's entire lifetime, hmmm?

here is another, but is it a black and tan or what?

I have two black/red working-line females in my program, and have had others in the past.  I look at pigment (dark pigment), not color, along with the more important traits - bloodlines, temperament, drive - for dogs I want to breed from and to.  I've used Eick, and other black/tan working-line stud dogs.  I find that more people want "traditional" colored puppies - but these are normally pet homes.  serious working homes normally don't make their first choice over color, though usually people do have their preferences.

Laika v Reimsloherwald Schh3



Lea v Cap Arkona Schh2

and you have to factor in that  sable gene is  dominate.

"here is another, but is it a black and tan or what?"

Yes, that's a black & tan, just more "melanistic" than the first two you presented.

It was fairly easy to earadicate the bridle color pattern from the breed, which was more dominant than sable.  It would not be as easy to regulate the dispersal of a less dominant trait (saddlebacked black & tans) to make it widespread in the workingline side of the breed, and if it were done intentionally, it would/should be a lower priority amongst the other characteristics considered.

I am sure there are some nice blk/tans (all degrees colorwise)  out there..  But isn't it ironic that it seems the majority of them are all sables?  Just a observation I made... Have noticed this trend for a while now....I don't have a problem with it at all. I love sables.....JMO


Also noticed that solids blacks are coming back also...we all know that is happening because of solid blacks produced from sable breedings....

owner edited: 7/9/10  1:50pmcst