How much praise? - Page 2

There's a lot wrong with it.  Too much of a good thing is still too much.  If your dog needs all this exuberant praise to keep him/her from going flat then there is something wrong, either in your foundation work or the dog just flat out doesn't have enough drive.  Keep in mind when you are on the field on trial day in the obedience and tracking phases you are only allowed to praise at specific times, end of exercizes and that praise  is very subdued.  

The joy for the dog should be in the work, they need to love the work, have innate and natural drive, we praise them for that joy and drive.  In the learning phase the dog learns to love the work through his drive because we channel them in that direction.  We only use the ball to teach the dog we want him to always work in high drive, done correctly,  the dog learns he doesn't need to see or have a ball all the time, because it becomes the dogs normal working state, he likes to work in drive, it's enjoyable for the dog, hence the drive state is the reward.

Sitasmom you said this is not a beginning dog, therefore the dog should have already learned to love the work.  IF the dog is only working without going flat because you are the dog's personal cheerleading squad,  there is something wrong.  If the dog does have the correct drives, you need to go back to fundamentals.

To me there is praise and then there is chatter.  Chatter is the constant....well, chatter that often becomes habit for the handler.  I think a dog that is naturally a bit flat, maybe lacking in drive or intensity can come to rely too much on this chatter in order to maintain a working attitude.

Praise is a "good girl!" and some semi hard petting on the shoulder...... sometimes a "Yes!" and short tug game.

My intention was to show her that I'm more fun the the little dogs that were all around her. And that its better to ignore them becasue I'm more fun. It worked because after the second class she was "chill". Even now, when she sees a small dog, she looks to me for fun and praise instead going after them with hackles raised.

As for as working for pleasure, she is happy to work, focus heeling for 45 munutes with only 1 5 minute break was challenging even for me....

thank you all for your input.

Who does "focused heeling" for 45 minutes????? 

I would like to see a video of that.  I must have a different defintion of focus and heeling.  Who even trains that way???????

Sitasmom you are completely contradicting yourself.  In your first post you state your dog went flat after the 3rd session because you were only allowed to give her minimal praise.  Now you want to tell us she will do a focused heel for 45 minutes with a 5 minute break?    

I'm with you Slam, I need to see a video, because something is being lost in the translation.  

we practiced heeling, and heeling and heeling with right turns, left turns, about turns, heeling with 360 turns, stop and sit, etc.........the class was 45 mnutes long......my dog knows that she's supposed to focus on my face when we're heeling...she did her best..... she gave up and just kinda hung by my side....... i had treats, tugs and praise to try to keep her focused for as long as I could, but eventually we both gave up.......

we were both exhausted by the end of each session.........quitting was the best thing i could do......since then I've had to work to get the focus and animation back into her heeling.......what a mess!



 

Biggest mistake was joining that class. You could have accomplished what you wanted by going to the local Petsmart for 15 minutes once a week, without the cookie cutter trainer, paying for the class and burning your girl out.

Here was your original question:

"I guess my question is, if it works, what's wrong with exuberant praise/play for a job well done?"

You should thank the trainer, she showed you where your foundation cracks are.   A well trained dog who works in drive doesn't require a cheerleader to do her job properly.  A well trained dog who works in drive doesn't become a "mess" just because you over worked her a couple times. 

Go back to basics.

Also the fact that you worked your dog too hard and too long is on you, not the class instructor.  You need to do a better job of reading your dog and shouldn't ever let her get to where she has to actually quit from exhaustion, unless you have enough dog and enough skills to teach her she must work no matter what.

uh....I have no interest in the video:-) I can't get up the courage to witness such nonsense!
Poor dog!

"The joy for the dog should be in the work, they need to love the work, have innate and natural drive, we praise them for that joy and drive."

I disagree.  The dog doesn't know what "work" is and what it isn't; it just wants to be doing something.  The joy for the dog comes from pleasing the person.