How to get young dog closer in the blind - Page 2

Just curious why (maybe you did) you didn't bring this up with Bernhard.

There is a good chance at 14 months that the dog does not understand what a "gaurd" is.   If you taught it properly through aggression you have taught the dog that it can with and has power over the helper with its barking and presence.   If you taught it out of Prey like many do it is just barking for the toy.

My guess would be that you probably taught the dog to bark for the toy and being that it is in close proximaty to a "stranger" it is feeling the pressure while it is barking for the toy.....and not sure how to handle that pressure.  The dog probably doesnt understand what the exercise is all about and doesnt have a clear picture in its head.....and you never gave it the tools to make it feel like it can win.

That is what the gaurd is supposed to be about....pressure....testing the dog in that situation.   Some dogs may not percieve that as pressure others will.

Teaching a gaurd takes alot of insight and understanding to get it right....and even then it is still a struggle.

Don:  I did mention the issue to Bernard Flinks at the seminar, but we ended up working on grips, targeting and cradling.  I was only at the seminar for one day.   Would have loved to been able to hear what he would have suggested

Unfortunately I could not find any videos of the (extreme) springing forward and back but put together guards from 3 seperate training sessions.  The first in the snow is Brenna's first guard in the blind, the second is from 2 weeks ago and the 3rd (I apologize it is a bit dark) was from Wednesday night.  I think she is progressing but am very interested in different training methods for teaching the "hold and bark".  Please don't critisize how the training has been done as I appreciate all the work my helper and trainer put into both me and my dog.  If you have something negative to say, please pm me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed4YgAzHiqM

Cheryl

 

What do you think the fence has done for your girl?

Try putting some sort of big stick or very small log. You put on about 3 inches in front of the helper and then one behind where the dog will be give him only a small area he's allowed to bark in. That might work because it's a phsicological thing for the dog if there's something "holding" him there.

I was lucky when our girl was 14 months she just went in there and started doing it like she's been doing it her whole life. I was shocked but maybe it just depends on the dog.

Confidence or primarily prey

To be honest, I dont think that dog is ready for a true guard.   You have to make the decision on what type of guard you want to have, a real guard out of aggression or a barking for the toy guard.  

These two types of guards can be dealt with differently.  Many, many people go for barking for the toy for a couple of reasons.  The first is they really dont know the difference.  The second is it is easier to train a dog and keep it clean and more malleable working it primarily in prey. 

Couldnt see the last part of the vid but the reason it wasnt close is because there was a fence in the way but the dog was still barking for the toy.

It is tough for a helper at times.  They may realize the handler cant handle a dog worked in aggression and doesnt take it there.  The handler may also travel long distances and want to see progress and may not like it if the helper says, "you know, I think we should wait a while" an not progress is made in the handlers mind.

Talk to the helper and see what he is thinking.  A clip of vid doestn tell the whole story and only shows one small space in time. It  doesnt show what the helper is really working towards.

Reno,

Looking at the video, particularly the fence work, it looks like Brenna is working alone, with no clear picture of what *you* want from her.  She looks confused about what is being asked of her, she moves back out of uncertainty and is being given a lot of support from the helper to keep her forward and engaged to the bite.

I agree with Dutts that she doesn't have the mental maturity there yet to be confident in her guard.  She's got very nice grips and the helpers are doing a very good job but you're not completing the exercise so the dog is being left without any clear direction.  You might want to put Brenna up and sit down and talk with your helpers about what exactly you're trying to achieve with this work and what *you* need to be doing to help support the dog.

RLHAR:  I think that is why I am asking for help.  I don't feel like I am doing anything to help her or communicate with her what she should be doing in the guard.  I don't want to make mistakes and want to learn what I can do in this situation to help her improve.  I trained a show line female for her SchI, which was a totally different type of dog to handle.  When Brenna was younger she would only bark out of defense so we spent alot of time developing her prey drive.  Now it looks like she prefers to bark at the sleeve on the ground then the helper.  It gets a bit confusing for me because I use to constantly working on increasing and maintaining drive with my showline and she responded differently.  If I praise Brenna during protection she tends to want to take a bite out of me, so I am not sure if I should continue to try and desensitize her to me patting her or work on it later.  I will talk more to my trainer and helper.  We  have a two week break in training so will have time to put my questions together. 

Dutss:

I would prefer to develop a more serious guard than prey.  My showline worked mainly in prey, and I would like to work a more serious dog my second time around.  Luckily I am only 20 minutes away from my trainer and can work there 2 x per week. I am in no hurry and am willing to put the time in to put a good foundation on her.  I just don't want my lack of knowledge to interfere with her progress. 

I thank everyone for their input. 

Cheryl