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by Jyl on 18 February 2011 - 06:02
I agree... very nice post Jim. If I lived closer to you I would love to come out and watch some of the tracking your Police K9s do.
by Kalibeck on 18 February 2011 - 20:02
Me, too! jackie harris
by Slamdunc on 18 February 2011 - 21:02
You'd be welcome any time.
Jim
Jim
by MAINLYMAX on 18 February 2011 - 21:02
very good topic...
I left IPO for NVBK for this reason. But to me SchH
still remains a very good test for breeding.
In the future you will see NVBK grow simply
because it is reality dog training.
Tracking is not part of it, but it may be something
like Jim describes in the future.
Tactical tracking, like NVBK real world conditions.
2 other things.....it does not matter if you are on land or concrete
the dog can tell something has changed by a foot step.
The dog can smell it.. Don't ask me how but he
can.
The other thing is what kind of coffee instant or ground?
I left IPO for NVBK for this reason. But to me SchH
still remains a very good test for breeding.
In the future you will see NVBK grow simply
because it is reality dog training.
Tracking is not part of it, but it may be something
like Jim describes in the future.
Tactical tracking, like NVBK real world conditions.
2 other things.....it does not matter if you are on land or concrete
the dog can tell something has changed by a foot step.
The dog can smell it.. Don't ask me how but he
can.
The other thing is what kind of coffee instant or ground?
by MAINLYMAX on 18 February 2011 - 23:02
Dude,
You missed the point.............>
Here is another Jim ...Jim Engel.
I will address tactical training in general
not just tracking...
Jim I am gassing up my car right now should be
there in about 20Hrs....Please have ground coffee.
No police station instant coffee. ...just kidding.
For you who are interested, the real world dogs are trained
for real situations. This is what I think Jim's point was... Very good commit,
very true.
Here is Jim Engel.
Some Impressions of Belgian Ring Sport (NVBK)
Jim Engel, April 2004
Belgian Ring Sport is a century old trial system for protective heritage canine breeds where the dog is tested for courage, trainability and working willingness, primarily by a decoy or agitator wearing a full protective body suit. While French Ring has been well publicized for two decades, the Belgian variety has had very little notice in America. Although the two sports are similar, in that the agitator or decoy wears a full body bite suit rather than the padded arm of Schutzhund, the differences in philosophy, practice, and as a result the dogs, are fundamental.
My first personal experience was at a club near the ancient city of Liege in far eastern Belgium in the middle nineteen eighties.. Like it was yesterday I remember standing by the ring watching a marvelous Malinois perform in perhaps the most fascinating ritual of the working dog world, the Belgian Ring trial. Schutzhund is precise, demanding and dramatic. KNPV(Dutch) is practical, down to earth and powerful. French ring is spectacular, athletic and impressive. But Belgian ring is a chess game between the handler and the dog on one side and the judge and the helper on the other. The rules and traditions are subtle and elusive, and I am sure to the novice it would seem that not much is going on. But for those of us with even a little experience it is an intricate drama, almost a trial field morality play.
You missed the point.............>
Here is another Jim ...Jim Engel.
I will address tactical training in general
not just tracking...
Jim I am gassing up my car right now should be
there in about 20Hrs....Please have ground coffee.
No police station instant coffee. ...just kidding.
For you who are interested, the real world dogs are trained
for real situations. This is what I think Jim's point was... Very good commit,
very true.
Here is Jim Engel.
Some Impressions of Belgian Ring Sport (NVBK)
Jim Engel, April 2004
Belgian Ring Sport is a century old trial system for protective heritage canine breeds where the dog is tested for courage, trainability and working willingness, primarily by a decoy or agitator wearing a full protective body suit. While French Ring has been well publicized for two decades, the Belgian variety has had very little notice in America. Although the two sports are similar, in that the agitator or decoy wears a full body bite suit rather than the padded arm of Schutzhund, the differences in philosophy, practice, and as a result the dogs, are fundamental.
My first personal experience was at a club near the ancient city of Liege in far eastern Belgium in the middle nineteen eighties.. Like it was yesterday I remember standing by the ring watching a marvelous Malinois perform in perhaps the most fascinating ritual of the working dog world, the Belgian Ring trial. Schutzhund is precise, demanding and dramatic. KNPV(Dutch) is practical, down to earth and powerful. French ring is spectacular, athletic and impressive. But Belgian ring is a chess game between the handler and the dog on one side and the judge and the helper on the other. The rules and traditions are subtle and elusive, and I am sure to the novice it would seem that not much is going on. But for those of us with even a little experience it is an intricate drama, almost a trial field morality play.
by MAINLYMAX on 19 February 2011 - 21:02
This was a quote from Jim Engel in 2004..
"Jim Engel, April 2004
"Belgian Ring Sport is a century old trial system for protective heritage canine breeds where the dog is tested for courage, trainability and working willingness, primarily by a decoy or agitator wearing a full protective body suit. While French Ring has been well publicized for two decades, the Belgian variety has had very little notice in America. Although the two sports are similar, in that the agitator or decoy wears a full body bite suit rather than the padded arm of Schutzhund, the differences in philosophy, practice, and as a result the dogs, are fundamental.
My first personal experience was at a club near the ancient city of Liege in far eastern Belgium in the middle nineteen eighties.. Like it was yesterday I remember standing by the ring watching a marvelous Malinois perform in perhaps the most fascinating ritual of the working dog world, the Belgian Ring trial. Schutzhund is precise, demanding and dramatic. KNPV(Dutch) is practical, down to earth and powerful. French ring is spectacular, athletic and impressive. But Belgian ring is a chess game between the handler and the dog on one side and the judge and the helper on the other. The rules and traditions are subtle and elusive, and I am sure to the novice it would seem that not much is going on. But for those of us with even a little experience it is an intricate drama, almost a trial field morality play." (Jim Engel)
So you don't think I am cribbing his lines...I have put in quotations marks.
This post was 2 days old so the moderator would not let me edited it.
So I rewrote it here and put in The quotation marks. (Max)
My experience goes back much further than Jim Engel with NVBK and Belgium Ring. But it is
better some times to hear this from others. So it is not me saying it merely a quote
that I happen to agree with. (Max)
For tactical training NVBK is King, but any one of these disciplines are very good.
Depending what you are looking for. (Max)
"Jim Engel, April 2004
"Belgian Ring Sport is a century old trial system for protective heritage canine breeds where the dog is tested for courage, trainability and working willingness, primarily by a decoy or agitator wearing a full protective body suit. While French Ring has been well publicized for two decades, the Belgian variety has had very little notice in America. Although the two sports are similar, in that the agitator or decoy wears a full body bite suit rather than the padded arm of Schutzhund, the differences in philosophy, practice, and as a result the dogs, are fundamental.
My first personal experience was at a club near the ancient city of Liege in far eastern Belgium in the middle nineteen eighties.. Like it was yesterday I remember standing by the ring watching a marvelous Malinois perform in perhaps the most fascinating ritual of the working dog world, the Belgian Ring trial. Schutzhund is precise, demanding and dramatic. KNPV(Dutch) is practical, down to earth and powerful. French ring is spectacular, athletic and impressive. But Belgian ring is a chess game between the handler and the dog on one side and the judge and the helper on the other. The rules and traditions are subtle and elusive, and I am sure to the novice it would seem that not much is going on. But for those of us with even a little experience it is an intricate drama, almost a trial field morality play." (Jim Engel)
So you don't think I am cribbing his lines...I have put in quotations marks.
This post was 2 days old so the moderator would not let me edited it.
So I rewrote it here and put in The quotation marks. (Max)
My experience goes back much further than Jim Engel with NVBK and Belgium Ring. But it is
better some times to hear this from others. So it is not me saying it merely a quote
that I happen to agree with. (Max)
For tactical training NVBK is King, but any one of these disciplines are very good.
Depending what you are looking for. (Max)
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