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by hodie on 12 January 2011 - 20:01
Hello Debby,
You are correct - siblings can and do have different alleles. In other words, one can only predict the possibility and potential expression of the recessive allele. We can do this by using a Punnett Square. But genetics too is not an exact science. So, you are NOT completely correct in your other statement that you know he does NOT carry the "l" allele. That can only be determined with certainty based on a DNA test. That being said, based on genetic statistics concerning the 11 pups, your male's pups probably would have inherited the recessive "l" allele from him if bred to a long coat female and we know they would have inherited the same allele from the mother as she is "ll", meaning either copy she passes on of the allele WILL be for long coat. But it is recessive, so for a pup to be long coated it MUST ALSO inherit an "l" allele from the sire. Since there were no long coat pups where statistically we would expect them IF he carried the recessive allele, we can surmise he is "LL", but again, we cannot be certain. If he did inherit the "l" allele, and if he was bred to a longcoat, some pups would also have been normal coated because we KNOW he has the "L" allele, at least one copy, which is the dominant allele. Again, what that means is that even if a dog has one copy of the "l" allele, for long coat, if it has the "L" allele, the dog will be a short coat.
Again, In the mix of 11 pups where none were long coated, it would be unusual, but not impossible that he does possess the "l" recessive gene. What we do know is that he did not pass that on if he had it. Clearly the dam possessed the "ll" allele since she herself was longcoat. The probability is that your male was NOT a carrier and was "LL", meaning both of his inherited alleles were for short coat. We know that his brother inherited the "l" alleles from both parents, and thus he turned out to be long coated (ll).
Does that make sense?
You are correct - siblings can and do have different alleles. In other words, one can only predict the possibility and potential expression of the recessive allele. We can do this by using a Punnett Square. But genetics too is not an exact science. So, you are NOT completely correct in your other statement that you know he does NOT carry the "l" allele. That can only be determined with certainty based on a DNA test. That being said, based on genetic statistics concerning the 11 pups, your male's pups probably would have inherited the recessive "l" allele from him if bred to a long coat female and we know they would have inherited the same allele from the mother as she is "ll", meaning either copy she passes on of the allele WILL be for long coat. But it is recessive, so for a pup to be long coated it MUST ALSO inherit an "l" allele from the sire. Since there were no long coat pups where statistically we would expect them IF he carried the recessive allele, we can surmise he is "LL", but again, we cannot be certain. If he did inherit the "l" allele, and if he was bred to a longcoat, some pups would also have been normal coated because we KNOW he has the "L" allele, at least one copy, which is the dominant allele. Again, what that means is that even if a dog has one copy of the "l" allele, for long coat, if it has the "L" allele, the dog will be a short coat.
Again, In the mix of 11 pups where none were long coated, it would be unusual, but not impossible that he does possess the "l" recessive gene. What we do know is that he did not pass that on if he had it. Clearly the dam possessed the "ll" allele since she herself was longcoat. The probability is that your male was NOT a carrier and was "LL", meaning both of his inherited alleles were for short coat. We know that his brother inherited the "l" alleles from both parents, and thus he turned out to be long coated (ll).
Does that make sense?
by djc on 13 January 2011 - 01:01
Yes, it does makes lots of sence! Thank you both!
I was basing my statement that he is not a carrier, in part on the breeding to the long coat. In whole I base my assumption on the fact that he has also been bred to several known carriers and never produced one. I am OK with the odds that there is still a very small chance that he might still carry it. But you have explained it very well.
Thanks again.
I was basing my statement that he is not a carrier, in part on the breeding to the long coat. In whole I base my assumption on the fact that he has also been bred to several known carriers and never produced one. I am OK with the odds that there is still a very small chance that he might still carry it. But you have explained it very well.
Thanks again.
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