Defense.... In terms I can understand......: ) - Page 2

"In a police K9 you want a level of suspicion. After all the 'bad guy' isn't going to run around like a bunny in hope the dog's prey drive kicks in.

For the day to day household, unless you really know what you're doing I wouldn't think a completely defensive dog would be a good thing."

This conversation gets a whole lot more complicated from here because you can't really discuss drives without discussing their thresholds, that is, the point at which, for example, a given dog perceives something to be a threat and switches from prey to defense.  RLHAR is correct, you would typically want a 'sharper' dog (lower defense threshold) as a police service dog.

Oh the name of the book....Der Schutzhund...Amazon.com $19.99.

Armin Winkler gives the translation.

There was some questions to what
the term Hard meant...in another thread.

It was  my suggestion  to view this term with the
3 original terms together rather than separately.

This refers to the dogs temperament..and was used
and is still used alot.,  by breeders and trainers.

Hard, Soft, and Sharp........this goes back so far no one knows
where it came from.

Hard...is the dogs ability to stand pain and pressure without backing down.

Soft;....Is the dogs ability to not misjudge a non threatening
situation.....a good mind....Soft and supple.

Sharp ....is a dog that wont take a lot of agitation.

Together with the right balance will give you a good working dog.

*Nods to what Keith is saying*

Thresholds and head clarity as well play a very important role.

What Rhlar and Keith said.

A defensive dog with low thresholds isn't a dog that can be trusted with strangers (generally speaking). This type of dog is constantly on guard and watching everyones slightest move. If the dog posses courage, high fight drive you can have a real liability on your hands. Good police sevice dog, but not an ideal PPD because in most cases this type of dog needs to be kenneled when visitors come around.

That said, this type of dog is great to travel in a vehicle our walk the streets with. Carjackers beware.

          Keith,,,,

            Once it is determined that a dog is a Defensive type, you then have to determine what the threshold for defense is...????...Yes,,,,???.....and a dog that has a low threshold for defense, means that it does not take much to make him defensive....Yes..???...This is what is considered " Sharp"....Yes,,???


                   Thanks...Deanna...: )

Felloffher.....Very good post,,,,I can inderstand this.....

                 Deanna...: )

What Felloffher said:  

High defense with a low threshold = A dog who should be in the hands of an expert least you end up with a liability. 

Hard, Soft, and Sharp........this goes back so far no one knows
where it came from.

Hard...is the dogs ability to stand pain and pressure without backing down.

Soft;....Is the dogs ability to not misjudge a non threatening
situation.....a good mind....Soft and supple.

Sharp ....is a dog that wont take a lot of agitation.

This is a great thread Ruger1, I have a question:

My female just turned 21 months, has never taken a correction well, if you correct her for something she feels in unfair, then she will come back at you she will nip at you or bite, but not hard.  Her pain tolorance, it is nearly impossable to make her yip or cry.   Our Vet pinched between her toes as hard as he could and she sat there, but as soon as he let go she nipped him.  He could not believe that she did not make any attempt to pull away or cry.

She has very high energy and loves everyone she meets, she is not aggressive at all at home or while in public.  My question is what kind of dog would she be considered from my explaination?

Ohhh, good idea GSDshow, working examples are often helpful!

I'll add to GSDshow's question with my own:

My girl is 3 years old.  On the field, facing the helper if she is hard pressed she will stand her ground, ignore the sleeve and make every attempt to show her displeasure by tagging the helper.  This is in the face of stick hit and whip threat, she does not even so much as glance back at me.

However, at the vet's if the vet is doing something that might cause her discomfort, she immediately looks for Mommy and signifies her discomfort by licking and generally looking morose.

So, per the definitions above, how would you interpret her 'defensive' drive and threshold levels?

Gsdshow,

She is hard, with a good mind......Now you need to
see how she does with a stranger agitating her.
How does she tolerate him. Is she quick to react
with very little agitation. Or does he have to get up
right in her face....to see her dark side. To properly
be tested seek out someone good who know what they are doing.
And tell you exactly what you have....She sounds good.

For work on the street you see very serious dogs you don't mess with.

I started years ago before Der Schutzhund came out.

The Germans just called it defense and attack drive without
explanation. So Dr Riesner wrote the book with a much better
idea of what you were looking at.

They used to call it defence and attack.....verteidigen   unt  Angriff

Depending on which of these the dog was most pronounced in is what 
you would work him as a rule.

                    Defence and attack