Buying/Importing an entire litter - Page 2

Dawg i would have to say both types of breeders are doing that these days but like Prager said everyone has to eat.  But there are those who could care less about anything else besides the money but some are doing it to get good lines over here to.  In my opinon if you dont have awsome contacts outside the USA or if you are a john doe and just want a import dog your better off to save your money.  The big time breeders dont sell there best pups to just anyone and when you are talking about importing it worse than buying in US.  They just dont want to sell there best to public and send the the lines outside of there country.  Jdiaz i dont think the OP was calling you out or all those who import just wondering if its always about the money

if the shoe fits ........

Litters from quality breedings are uniform in structure and temperament. It is not cast in the stone that you can not get top pup from overseas especially from repeated breedings and if you have someone here in USA  who can give the breeder in overseas a little "push" for your pup being the better one. I always make sure that my clients get the "better" pups from the litter.  And if not top often there is not much difference from top pick and second pick. Also keep in mind that different quality pups are pick for different people. For example we will select different pup for police and different for 79 years old lady. That is another benefit of having someone here who really knows the breeder in Europe and cares what you will get,... since it is good for business and people vote with their dollars.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Prager you have been doing this for years and have many contacts in other countrys that you have worked with for many years.  But a person like me that has never bought a dog anywere but US and dont have any contacts without a agent or a middle man i would have nothing but the breeders word and reputation to go on.  The only reason a breeder has to give me a great dog would be because hes a man of his word or he wants to keep a good reputation.  I just think its to big of a risk to try to import yourself without the help of a middle man.  Then when you add up all the money you end up paying you dont have any way to comunicate with breeder it just not worth it in most circumstances.  You have just as good dogs for sale in US and can look at a lot more litters to find that perfect dog for you it just seems safer to buy here for me.  Without guys like youPrager it would be even harder so thaks for doing that for the breed.

Nope, not saying everyone is in it only for money - Nor am I against making a buck. I am not particularly fond of the "widget" analogy although you make your point I don't like comparing puppies to commodities. I don't believe puppies (imported or otherwise) should be bought and sold like dry goods just my personal opinion, maybe I'm just too sentimental when it comes to dogs...

Although I agree that not everybody is a scumbag I do believe there is a shortage of good people in the breed that conduct themselves honestly, fairly and responsibly here (in the US) and abroad. Luckily for me I have been able to work with some of the good ones and have not been "taken" by the bad.

On another note, if you are an informed/educated buyer other then the possibility of a language barrier I don't think there is too much room for error and would rather if given the choice buy direct. JMHO

dAWgESOME


Nobody is comparing puppies to commodities or dry goods. That is silly!!!  All I am saying is  that if anyone who provides good service he needs to get payed for it.

If you do not think that there is not much possibility of problems if you buy direct from overseas then I can give you hundreds of examples of how thing can go wrong. Further you go from your home more problems will arrive and it is a good idea to have rep in you country to lean on if such problems arrive. Usually everybody is happy until things do go wrong. Then more often then not problems with replacement, money back and so on arrives.General tradition of selling dogs in Europe is that they are live beings and that you can not guarantee these. Thus some unscrupulous sellers there  will put warranty on the site but just laugh at the prospect of actually honoring it if something go wrong and think nothing of it. Only recently warranty on dogs is becoming to be part of the culture there. Also the  surest problem is shipping cost difference. If you buy adult dog from Europe it will cost you $1000+- to return it back to Europe and extra effort with international health certificate and so on; rather  then if it is necessary to return the dog to an importer within your country. To return the dog within the USA will cost only  $350+-. Also warranty is legally more enforceable within the country than across the borders which forces local seller/importer to be more honest in honoring their warranty.
Help with registrations and so on is another deal. I can not tell you how many times I was helping people who imported dogs "directly" to get their papers and on and on and on. Language barrier being the smallest problem of all of them.
These days of poor economy any economically struggling person  in oversees with 2 dogs will sell you a dog of Czech or German reputation without any intention to deliver quality promised or guarantee such dogs. I know of cases of people selling one dog and then disappeared from the radar screen. And then when the buyer here in USA found out that dog is dysplastic and has bad elbows he got only F U. Literally. Yeah he saved on a purchase of this $6000 dog $500. I have stories like that  for several  long evenings. 
 I am not saying that everybody  in oversees is a crook. Not at all! There are many honest and reputable breeders there. But for John Q Public to figure out who is who is very difficult. 99% of people buying dogs are not savvy enough to recognize an ad from a janitor selling his back yard pups to "stupid, rich " Americans from reputable seller. That is a tough task for most.
 
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Thanks Prager that is what i have been saying for years myself.  The average dog buyer does not have a very good chance of geting a top dog outside the US all by themselves.  Its a bad idea to try to buy unless you are willing to pay a person like you who could broker the deal.

Prager,

I sincerely thank you for you comments, I consider you a valuable contributor to this site. You have brought to my attention an angle on this topic I did not at first take in to consideration.

The average Joe (American) may or may not have the "know-how" or the "want-to" to seek out a well bred pup (or dog) from a trustworthy European and there are some individuals who are willing and able to take on the risk/liability/responsibility of being the middle man (or woman).

I've vicariously thru this site and the unfortunate real life experiences of others I know personaly have learned that there is some seriously rotten dog people out there. I'd love to hear some of your stories someday may over a beer.

Personally, if I don't believe in an individual/dog/program with all my heart 100% I would rather get on a plane and take my helper with me to go test some dogs and see with my own eyes if its really what I want.

Summer Duggan
In Dogs We Trust

prager is right like he is most of the time.i may be one of the lucky guys on the block but i have imported dogs and bitches from both chech and slovica and from 3 different breeders and as of this date(one is yet to arrive)i have had positive experience)one gentlemen Mr.gurtler,i had talked to for over a year before i finally done buisness with him.he is as honest as they come and i would recommend him to any one.he is i guess what  you guys call a back yard breeder.he breeds first class dogs at a decent price.hans,no doubt,has great dogs and i intend to dig into his brood pen one of these days.all i can say is .talk to you seller and use your gut.it is usually right.

As far as this conversation is concerned no one shoe fits all. Breeders are motivated by a variety of reason but the bottom line is that we expect to be rewarded for our efforts regardless of our motives. My guess is that each of us share the same motivation--improve our breed stock, to be recognized for our efforts and to turn a profit and be rewarded for it.