The Dominance Theory ..... Is it all wrong? - Page 2

Moons, it has nothing to do with training, it has to do with invalidating the wolf as a role model for the domestic dog.

I've never tried to compare the two..... Apples and oranges...dogs and wolves....domestic and wild.... don't know why anyone would if they understood animals to start with. Don't want to debated this guy, his views, training, or fashion.

The thing is, you can't say dominance doesn't color any interactions between dogs and humans, or dogs and dogs.  Dominance is at work, in some form, between members of all species, including humans.  Ever seen a group of high school girls?  Boys?  Little kids?  Supposed adults?  I've seen it lots of times. 

In horses, it can be seen.  A pecking order, the alpha, or leader in charge, while everyone else fills a variety of positions below that.  It's obvious in wolves, but their lives are so much tied up in dominance and challenges, more than in other species. Dogs are not as wrapped up in dominance as wolves, at least they don't seem to be to me.

You know, while one can say that dogs and dominance issues vary from their wild cousins, the fact also remains that for those who say that dogs are in no way like the wolf, there has been too much humanity ascribed to a creature that is not human.  Dogs do not view the world the way humans do, and never will, not even if they are with us another million years.  They will still be dogs, and we will still be humans.

Let me pose this question:  If dominance is not an issue with domesticated dogs, then what does your dog mounting your leg and humping you for all its worth mean?  Does your dog really, really, really love you? Or is it dominance?  I am really curious, for those who believe there is no such thing in domesticated dogs, since they are no longer wolves, to please explain to me what they believe is going on when this behavior occurs.

Believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic, either.  I am, however, worn out, fatigued, exhausted, burned out...I'm going to bed, and I'll check back for answers in the morning, or some other time when I get time.

Crys

If dominance is not an issue with domesticated dogs, then what does your dog mounting your leg and humping you for all its worth mean? Does your dog really, really, really love you? Or is it dominance?

In my humble observations, it means he (or she) is most likely horny, and trying to release some pent up frustrations. Either that, or when the dogs hump their beds, they're trying to dominate their pillows.

Males typically hump more than females, which leads me to believe that it's a sex-urge driven behavior most of the time. Most females I've observed humping were either in heat, or around another in-season female.

The dominance humping seems more to be derived from stand-over behavior, where a dog puts its paw or paws up on the back of another. This behavior isn't seen in wolves much, but other canids, like coyotes use stand-overs quite often, even at a young puppy age. Dominance humoing seems less... frantic.. I guess the word would be. Standing-over is seen in both males and females, and may or may not result in a dominance humping.

I also observe that in dominance humping, the dog's piece remains neatly tucked in his sheath, maybe only exposed a little. In sexual humping, I notice full penial exposure.

(That's another thing I can't stand about Millan; in one clip he wrestled a dog into submission, the tip of the dog's anatomy was peaking from the sheath, and Millan said something along the lines of "See, he's aroused. He gets exceited by trying to dominate me." Actually, that behavior is also a response to stress and/or anxiety. Either that or almost all my male dogs finds riding in the car an erotic experience.)

I can't say I've ever seen a dog humping out of love. I don't think they express love in a sexual or pseudo-sexual sense. I don't believe it's how they're wired. Very few animals (if any) other than humans use sexual behaviors as a means of expressing affection (bonobos and doplhins apparently do).






I do believe dominance is a huge part of social interactio among all social animals, but it's not synonymous between species, and one species' behavior does not translate to another species.

Humans are one of the few animals, possible the only animal, that rationalizes dominance to justify the emotional base of their behaviors. Here's a related article that explains how dominance has become over-used and over-simplified by humans. http://www.realmacaw.com/pages/pbdom.html It applies to parrots, but the root concept applies across the board, in my opinion.

Humans take dominance out of concept, and attempt to anthropomorphise it because it's one of the most basic behaviors seen in nearly all animal species, so I think it's one of the few humans think is universally identical and applicable. Which, again in my opinion, it most definately is not.

jc carrol...in that show on National Geo,  Man among wolves,   A male wolf mounted another male, which led into a lot of growling, and snarling.  I don't see how you can say it's just sex driven when they do that, especially when you see two males do that.....and then comes a blood  bath to follow, or some kind of confrontation.(maybe I read your post wrong though)  Not to mention someone I know has a female who will mount any and every male she is around, and she won't take crap off of them.  She was one I talked about before who would put the dog down by the neck, and then stand proudly over them...if the dog tried to get back up, she would do a quick hard bite to the neck and stand back over them again, head high, chest out, very proud.  She humped dogs male or female.

I could only listen to the video because I could not stand his face.  He clearly has an agenda, which is to promote "purely positive" dog training, and degrade anyone who uses correction.  Good luck.  I have a whole business of people who don't want the all-positive treat training, or it failed their dog, just got a call 5 minutes ago from a woman taking classes and all the treats is making her dog throw up during training and it still pulls.

Well, this is something I could talk a lot about, but I will keep it short... First of all, I have never met a dog owner who thought jumping or pulling was "dominance", most people have a clue that it's just an exited dog.  Maybe this guy has other people in mind, but at least the people I talk to are not stupid and don't think pinning their dog down is the solution for behavior issues.  And yes there are dog personalities that tend to be dominant, pushy, and believe they are in charge.  One such dog I recently trained would grab its owners leg with its front legs and bite her when she tried to controlt he direction he was walking, that is a dominant behavior in that particular dog.  There are also dominant-aggressive dogs who bite people.  Good luck with the treat training on that one.  There are also clear examples of situational dominance-aggression, and dogs can be dominant in certain areas or over certain resources- like a dog that bites someone for getting onto the bed.

You don't need to beat your dog, pin it down, correct it, yell, or even eat first (as if a dog would even care if you eat first?).  But I DO NOT believe in "TEAM EQUALS".  The only way to own a dog is for the human to be the leader, end of story.  I am so sick of hearing about the equal partners crap, if you do not act as a leader and set the rules, your dog will, and dogs make lousy leaders.

the some rest of his videos have some decent training tips, he is a fan of clicker training and backup with treats, then with a toy.

I am not a fan of clickers..... And I have been around wolves..... the pack mentality is different in dogs.... Humping your leg is not a sign of dominance...... to me it's more a kin to that dog going after it's own foot...... Postive reinforcement is only one half of the coin.....there must also be absolute control and that requires some force....... This guys use of the term dominance was not relevant.... He reminded me of Timothy Treadwell a little........ food for thought.

Sitasmom, I liked the one where he teaches the dog to shut the door. If my dog (or children) would do that, I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven.

GSDguy08,

I don't see how you can say it's just sex driven when they do that...

I -never- said humping was just a sex-driven behavior.