Deer season - Page 2

In MA hunters are not allowed to use dogs to hunt deer; nor are dogs allowed to "run" deer on their own.  It is lawful for any law enforcement officer acting within their jurisdiction to "destroy" a dog found running deer, which in essence means they can shoot any such dog at their discretion. 

If the deer population is large enough that you can hunt more than one deer under your own license, legally, then I would assume that they aren't all that hard to find, due to their numbers.  And so, why would you need dogs?  A halfway decent hunter doesn't need dogs to bag a deer, even when the population is not that large.

Here in Idaho, you get ONE deer tag, period.  I believe that you can get a second one, if you are willing to pay the two hundred plus dollars for the non-resident deer tag.  But you can't buy a second resident, $28 deer tag.  No dogs are used in hunting, just a person, a gun or bow, and some good luck.  My husband rarely has to do much to fill his tag, and one year, a friend of my stepson put his tag on a doe that ran out in front of him half a mile from home.  Here, we hunt for food, we don't hunt for the heads to put on a wall.  And the only ones who get to hunt from the seat of a vehicle are those who are physically disabled, such as a family friend who served 23 years in the Navy, and was disabled as a result of that service.

I guess the way I see it, it is cowardly to chase a deer out the woods with a dog, and you should be a good enough shot to drop your deer.  If not on the first shot, you should be good enough to track it.  If you can't do either of those things, you shouldn't be hunting...Not wanting to track a wounded deer is the reason my husband goes for head shots with his deer...They don't run when they are shot through the head..

Crys

BabyEagle,
just a couple questions on what you posted please if you can. If hunting with dogs is illegal in PA, it should be a game law violation if a hunter has a dog with him? Assuming hunter is defined person with a weapon in their actual physical possession during the season. Dogs chasing deer can be shot on sight under the wildlife or game laws but not the same as livestock harrassment laws? And a minor correction, VA and NC are part of the 13 original colonies and both on and off leash is allowed here. Pretty sure it's legal in at least parts of SC and GA too but I'm not positive.

RFS,
From my experience, the dogs are released at a certain point with the intention of them driving the deer toward an open field. Pretty distasteful method of "hunting" in my book but it does have it's purposes. In a heavily overpopulated area, it allows for a fairly quick thinning of the population. Especially in areas that are just not possible to hunt effectively by traditional means. A large knot of isolated wetlands surrounded by farm fields is a good example. It does happen that dogs chase individual deer the wrong way. When that happens, the deer can and usually do outrun the dogs pretty quickly. In a bad area, tight brush, both will run to exhaustion but the dog usually quits before the deer will. Problems start with lost dogs getting on the highways and crossing private property that doesn't want the dogs there at all. It's a pretty big controversy in some areas and more and more are looking for reasonable means to either restrict it or ban it.

The local deer population here is out of control, with the only predators being coyotes who can occasionally take down a young fawn but not anything older.  Too much land is non-huntable or private propery for hunting to even make a dent.  So they multiple right up to the point where any inclement weather puts them in starvation mode.

So naturally when there's a drought in summer or heavy snows in winter, the buggers come over the fence and demolish my vegetable garden or gnaw my shrubbery.  I call 'em "rats with hooves, " and anyone who could waste a bunch of them by fair means or foul would be a hero in my book!  

Molly,
I'm pretty sure you're right on the money with Virginia's laws. They are more strict that some. I don't think it's legal to shoot on sight a known hunting dog during deer season though. But the dogs must be clearly identified by either tracking collar or otherwise marked as a hunting dog. Strays harrassing wildlife can be shot on sight.

NC allows hunters to train with dogs out of season but is very strict about "no weapons allowed anywhere" if you're training. Even a gun or bow in a locked case inside a locked vehicle is considered possession. That brings all kinds of trouble for poaching and firearms violations. You can't shoot stray hunting dogs here either unless you own it.

Some of the dogs are treated well and considered very valuable, a lot very sadly are not. Heartworm is indemic here, a lot of dogs carry a heavy load. Tracking collars cost more than the dogs do. I've seen a lot of dogs hit by cars left laying on the road but the tracking collars and ID collars were gone. I've even run across a couple guys shooting a whole pack of walker hounds just outside the dismal swamp. They said it cost more to feed the dogs for the year then it did to just buy a new pack next season. They laughed and joked about the "bear bait". I bought as many of dogs on the spot as I had cash for and called and reported them. I like to believe things this are the exception rather than the rule but it happens far more often than it ever should.

Crys,
I have to agree with you, if you can't drop it with one shot, you don't belong out there until you can. And I do find a lot of the deer dog hunting practices cowardly. Get to that in a minute.
Spinal shots are just as good as head shots for dropping an animal in it's tracks but just as tricky. A well placed heart/lung shot will drop a deer effectively and quickly. They may run some but usually not very far if the hunter is patient and just watches the deer instead of hurrying off the stand to go chase after it.
Tracking can be an art and a lot of times it's not easy. Everyone who hunts should be able to track. I'm glad your husband is a responsible and ethical hunter. I do believe ON LEASH trailing with dogs should be allowed in most areas. A lot more deer shot just before dusk would be recovered and much quicker that way. Too many times wounded animals get left because they can't be found before dark. Hunters will go back the next morning to look, but by then if the animal is found, how long did it suffer before dying.

Donald,
I don't mind occasional population thinning of deer like that. They do need to be managed. But, I hate the accepted practice of spending every Saturday sitting in a truck and shooting deer out the window or from a lawn chair in the truck bed. It's not sport to shoot at as many as you can when they come running out of the woods chased by dogs. "If it's brown it's down" indiscriminate killing is a pretty crappy philosophy in my book.

Where I lived in Charlottesville - there was a lot of deer hunting with hounds.  And every year, just after deer season ended, there were dead beagles all over the roads - and I mean LOTS of them.  I'd sometimes see 20 (a whole pack) dead in a couple miles' stretch of 29 north.  Because (I was told by the humane society who was also stuffed with deer beagles who were abandoned that time of year), that after the season was over, the hunters would just not pick up their packs on the last hunt.  They would get new hounds before the next season.  That way they didn't have to house or feed the hounds over the winter.

Deer beagles were also pretty obviously bred for deer hunting - beagles bred to larger hounds to make 40 lb beagles - I was told this is to make a hound that could run faster and use their eyes better than a Beagle (coon hounds use their eyes better than beagles who hunt with nose down) - but not big/fast enough to actually catch the deer.

and yes, they would set the hounds on one side of a wooded area, then drive down to the other end and wait with their guns ready - shoot when the deer emerged from the woods on that end.  One ticket = one deer as with any state, but if you have all your buddies with you or you have two tickets, then you can shoot a lot of deer depending on how many came out and if they had antlers or not (depending on what season it was).

IMO I agree this is not an admireable way of hunting.  More like shooting livestock.  I never liked the idea of it and never will.  But I suppose you could come up to PA and shoot some deer that are being raised in enclosures for that purpose - whitetail deer are considered livestock up here, and it is legal to raise/own and harvest them in fenced enclosures.

How many "trophy" bucks in PA were raised on corn and either inside an enclosed area then released, or sold to a game park for someone's trophy - or fed grain and shot while eating contentedly?  Not impressed with any of that.



molly

mobjack, sorry, I prolly should have reread my post before I closed it out on a hunch about the 13. I was typing when everyone else posted before me, if I would have reread I would have known that last night I'm outdated .. then googled.

It's the House Game Laws and Codes that allow a dog to be shot and at present the State Laws reafirms it. But I see this will change what I'm about to mention.

I'm glad this topic was brought up now, because I did google this morning and according to HB 2625 proposed this July 2010 .. it says unleashed tracking dogs are now allowed to be used in PA, although that's not in black and white yet in the 2010 Game and Wildlife Code book that every hunter supposed to read each year, I don't think it actually passed yet. I can't find the resolution online. I think it would have to pass both House Game & Fisheries Committees.  If it does or did pass, I must post my land this year. (edit: although I've never knew a dog can read a posted property sign) Maybe other states have the same type HB that did pass already and beings it's so late in the year brings the OP question to more of a serious inquiry.

Gezzz to know deer season starts in a few weeks, the 2010 Game Code book on my doorstep months ago and this is still uncertain (?) ... is almost asking for troubles in general this upcoming season.

I think you can use dogs with deer in FL, but not if hunting turkeys.  Hunting with dogs is very popular in FL, especially in hunting hogs. These pigs have overrun the state and the south in general.