Another Bloat - Page 2

Molly is on a prescription (dry and can) Low fat  royal canin formula (due to her epi) and Libby and Falon are on California Naturals fish and sweetpotato.

I wonder if the rc low fat was on the study or if it was the normal rc formula.

C

Hi Cheryl,
     Not sure what the active ingredient is in pepcid but I was told to use simethicone to help prevent bloat. I haven't felt the need to give it at every meal but used it after Cassie was spayed and it worked.
           Dot

 I am saving my bucks for the gastropexy on my newest pup.  Many of my friends have had their GSDs gastropexied prophylactically. 

I had a boy who had spleen issues after surviving his bloat/torsion surgery.  Eventually his spleen torsioned and had to be removed.  It is something to watch for.

The low fat versions of Royal Canin do not contain the suspected bloat-inducing ingredient. 
California Natural does not contain the bloat inducing ingredient either.

While I feel Royal Canin is a horrible food, its probably not causing the bloat issues.
With the high incidence of bloat in the same pedigree, I'd have to boil it down to genetics.

If they have to open either dog up again, I'd go for the surgical proceedure to anchor the stomach to the abdominal wall.

Thanks Sunny for the link.  A very interesting article.

Michele

The spleen will always be enlarged within minutes of starting any surgery. It is a side affect of the anesthesia. Your Vet's decision to not remove the spleen was probably in your dogs best interest. Removing the spleen is a lengthy procedure that greatly increases the time in which your dog is under anesthesia. It also can greatly contribute to the length of recovery as the body no longer has the reserve of red blood cells. If there was no evidence of necrosis, the spleen was in the correct position and not alarmingly enlarged or abnormal in appearance, than there was no reason to remove the spleen. Yes, a prophylactic gastroplexy is a great idea, especially in any line prone to bloat. It is not a massively invasive surgery and has a general recovery period similar to that of a spay or other routine surgery. I know many people that do it when they have their dogs sedated for their OFA's, taking full advantage of one anesthetic procedure. I have never heard that canned food is less likely to cause bloat. You would need to feed a large amount of canned food probably to maintain weight. I would be worried about the excess bulk/amount causing a problem. I have wet all of my dogs' dry food for 13 years. My trainer recommends it, as does my veterinarian. I don't necessarily soak their food, just enough warm water to cover the food. I had one dog in the last 13 years bloat, but it was caused by a foreign body obstruction in the intestines. Shortly after he bloated, he started vomiting like the exorcist. He obviously didn't torsion. I still had his stomach tacked (mid line gastroplexy) during his surgery for the foreign body obstruction. I truly believe in wetting my dogs food. I also believe in giving some additional enzymes or probiotic supplements as well, like Target dog probiotic formula or some yogurt. Lastly, pepcid is a great drug for the stomach, but is most likely not going to reduce the risk of bloat as it is an antacid. Simethicone is the active ingredient in Gas-x, which should be used in a dog prone to bloat or that is gassy. However, I know many people who had more luck with using digestive enzymes, like pancreazyme, in the high risk bloat dogs, especially in a line of standard poodles with each dog bloating several times previous to starting the enzymes and not at all once on the enzymes. I think you have two dogs at high risk to bloat based on their genetics. I think your unrelated dog was at high risk based on all of her other gastro-intestinal problems. I don't think you did anything to cause it or increase their risks of bloating. You are fighting genetics and disease causing your dogs' cases of bloat. K9Queen (Head Veterinary Technician and Surgical Tech)

Hi Cheryl, I'm having a second sleepless night with my girl, I thought she was having issues last night, but since her bowel was plicated, I wasn't sure what the issue was. She went to the vets, found she was full of gas, but her stomache was Ok, not torsioned, & her plication was intact. The vet gave her pepcid & reglan, & some sub-q fluids, & we're watching her. I can assure you, she going back for a recheck as soon as they're open in the am, when I got home tonight she looked a little worse, not better. I'm so glad your dog is OK. This sucks, I can't stand watching her look so lethargic. There's a thread I started yesterday that I'm updating....good luck with your dog. BTW...my girl was on Royal Canin when she originally had her bowel intersusseption. The vet surgeon did implicate the RC, saying the beet pulp that they use as filler is very poorly tolerated in some dogs. I got a heartbreaking e-mail from a lady in South Africa who lost her GSD pup from digestive issues associated with RC, as well. Beet pulp was what that surgeon stated as the ingrediant that caused the problem. Just so you know, I hate thinking that other dogs & their people are suffering from this stuff needlessly  This time, we think Ansgar may have ingested something. Anyway, good luck.jackie harris

Hi Dot:

Michele had given me some simethicone  after Molly bloated.  When I noticed Libby acting uncomfortable, I did give her 2 pills, however I think that it was too late by that point to work. 

I think I will start periodically giving it to the 3 that have bloated as a preventive measure.

k9 Queen:

The vet said the spleen looked large on the xray.  They did not see any masses or anything unusual when they opened her up, so they decided not to remove it.  Hopefully it will not be an issue as I don't want her to have to go thru another surgery if at all possible.  Since November she had 4 surgeries total - one to remove a lump on her hip and 2 tails surgeries - 1 to remove a cyst and 1 partial amputation, plus this torsion. Luckily she is a healthy 9 year old and has seemed to tolerate each one very well.

Thank you everyone.  If any of the others require sedation for any reason I am going to request their stomachs be tacked.  Last time I asked if I could have this done when Molly was spayed, my vet did not offer it as an option.  If they still won't perform it, I will look around for another vet who is willing to perform the procedure.

Cheryl 

Aaron, are you going to keep us in suspense or tell us what the bloat-inducing ingredient is?

I think I found it...

STUDY RECOMMENDATIONS
 
* Feed two or more meals a day
* Feed no more than one cup per 33 pounds of body weight per meal when feeding two meals a day
* Feed an energy-dense diet, to reduce volume, but avoid a diet where a high amount of calories are from fats.
* Feed a variety of different food types regularly. The inclusion of human foods in a primarily dry dog food diet was associated with a 59 percent decreased risk of GDV while inclusion of canned pet foods was associated with a 28 percent decreased risk
* When feeding dry food, also include foods with sufficient amounts of meats and meat meals, for example: beef, lamb, poultry, and fish.
* Feed a food with larger particles, and include larger pieces of meat to the diet.
* Avoid moistening dry foods
• If your dog eats rapidly, find ways to try to reduce his speed of eating
* Avoid raising the food bowl - place it at ground level
* Try to minimize stress for your dog. Stressful events have been reported to be precipitating factors in GDV occurrence.
* Restrict vigorous exercise one hour before and two hours after meals.
* When you are not in close proximity to your dog, use a baby monitor to alert you if your dog is in distress.
* Learn to recognize signs of GDV, which include pacing and restlessness, head turning to look at the abdomen, distention of the abdomen, rapid shallow breathing, nonproductive attempts at vomiting, and salivation. These symptoms can progress rapidly to shock and death. Get to your veterinarian or emergency hospital the moment you suspect GDV