Raw feeding - what about beef fat? - Page 2

I agree that veggies are not digestible raw and that fat is a dogs energy source but I dont agree that feeding a meat only diet is healthy esp if the person doesnt add any supplements. And if fat by itself was easily digestible then more dogs would be able to handle it. Ive had several dogs that couldnt digest it at all. Unless the dog is on raw from the beginning then I add enzymes esp if the dog is older and is already having a hard time.

I have a friend who works for a holistic vet tell me last weekend they just had another client at the clinic who fed their dog a meat only diet and the dog got really sick. Once suppliments were added and the diet was tweeked, the dog was alot better. Why take the chance. JMO.

EVERYBODY,If I am reading this right this person says he or she  is giving 1.5 to 2 POUNDS a day of FAT with VERY LITTLE MEAT on it.This is more than likely going to cause pancreatitus(sp)from the years of reading and researching I have done.I have NEVER heard of anyone giving a dog that much fat.I suggest that you consider asking someone knowledgeable for some guidance  before continuing this type of feeding.This is a certain remedy for disater for these dogs.Im surprized that they dont have screaming diarrea and vomiting already.I also am feeding total raw right now and will be getting a nutritionist to properly balance the diet for me so that I am not getting into excesses and deficiencies of certain nutrients.Also by the way please do NOT take this as being insulting in any way as that is NOT my intention .I just dont want your dogs to become sick cause I know that it is possible when we feed these types of diets without proper guidance.Good luck and I hope it all works out.

like i said, " if your dogs are constantly on the move working dog, i would say that amount of fat would be ok here and there. otherwise, that is not a "balanced" diet for a dog, and i would not recommend it long term."

as for hearsay about a friend's employer's client's dog, it doesn't really give anyone any information.  we don't know the details and therefore cannot make any decisions as to if there was an underlying cause to the problem, what the problem was, or if it was totally unrelated to raw food (because raw food is the first thing that gets blamed).

and i can tell you from my personal experience, that i went to a specialist for a problem that i had with my dog that was totally unrelated to his all meat diet.  and this specialist said it was due to the all meat diet, as well as the salmonella and all other bacteria in the raw meat.  this specialist was so positively sure that this was the problem that i made her take a culture and send it to the lab.  and then this specialist didn't even have the balls to call me back and tell me she was wrong, and it was only typical skin bacteria (i had to make the call to the office to pry that information out of the vet tech).

i have given my dogs fat as a meal here and there, approx. 1-1.5 lbs of fat; beef fat, lamb fat, pork fat.  each of the dogs responds differently to it.

I do not have a good feeling about this longer term.  Dogs need muscle meat as the majority of their diet.  Fat 2 pounds a day, I don't think so.  Seems like it's too much.  Even the chicken skins for one of my dogs is too much fat and it causes him diarreah.  I also would worry about pancreatitis, and I do not buy that since it's raw it's that much different, it's FAT.  Also, what about addressing the one dog's chronic diarreah, what's wrong with him and can anything be done?
BTW the enzyme is lipase.  I give my dogs Animal Essentials brand enzymes/probiotics.

Fat will make their coats look fantastic in the short term, but the damage you are doing internally is not visible.

Some fat yes in small amounts spread throughout the month and even then I would feed lamb breast over beef fat.

What you are feeding is not a healthy diet for any dog.

Dogs can obtain nutrition from fruits and vegetables, whilst it is true that you either have to puree them, freeze them or cook them, it also provides some essential FOS a prebiotic which is good for gut health.

Fruit and veg are only an issue if you have a dog that is prone to yeast overgrowths (sugar feeds yeast hence alcohol)!  but is not a problem to yeast intolerant dogs per se.

As for arthritis anecdotal evidence in humans suggests vegetables from the nightshade family eg tomatoes, aubergines, peppers and potatoes may exacerbate the condition, there is no need to ban ALL veggies if the dog is arthritic.

I am not really clear about the WHOLE picture of the diet, and without knowing the weight of the dog, its temperament, metabolism, work regime etc etc it is difficult to say whether or not the dog has too much fat in its diet per se.  One can only judge that by seeing the whole picture.

Beef suet is very useful for putting weight on a thin dog or providing extra energy when required eg winter or hard work.

* "if your dogs are constantly on the move working dog, i would say that amount of fat would be ok here and there. otherwise, that is not a "balanced" diet for a dog, and i would not recommend it long term." *

--  I wouldn't feed this kinda fat (suet) anyother time other than extreme winters when the body needs to hold onto calories. Even then, just as calorie booster maybe1/16 a pound (1 ounce) with a normal diet if your dog is extremely active. Like a working sled dog pulling serious miles in the Artic in sub freezing conditions or something.

I say this because, it sounds like from the discription of the OP, this "fat" is the hard fat or suet from beef and not regular drippings fat. This kinda "fat" doesn't melt in the body with normal body temps the dog. (or the dog will spike a fever to expel it)
 It hangs out and collects in the stomach almost like a slow cook simmering pot kinda thing (melts slow with normal body temps). This isn't good with the amounts given mentioned by the OP. Doesn't even sound good in those amounts even for a sub freezing active Artic sled dog.  JMO.

I dunno, I learned my lesson, no suet for the dogs !! (dripping fat yes, suet NO) Because all the suet you feed will collect and hang out in the stomach and eventually melt down and the dog will vomit it all up in one blow.

If anything, maybe you should melt it down on the stove top and store it in a crock .. then just reheat and drip over kibbles when ever needed. I think you be suprised how high a heat is needed to break down hard fat or suet. Then you understand what I'm sayin here. lol

JMO. Good luck.

 Jeeze,  I don't even feed two pounds of MUSCLE a day! A tablespoon or two of fat a day is all they need!

Thats exactly what I was trying to point out in my response above.Now im wondering if this post is even for real cause I cant for the life of me see a dog ingesting that much fat and not getting sick.Anyway,I hope this person reads the few posts here and acts on this quickly.

Ok Everyone, I cut WAAAY back on the beef fat, and they do have dry food daily. The dog with the chronic intestinal issues has been thoroughly tested, poked and prodded by his veterinarian and has no known cause for his diahreahh. I plan on giving beef bones with marrow to them next week as a treat, and will be adding a fresh egg once or twice a week. I am also thinking of giving Chicken Leg Quarters about 3x a week. I may also start giving cooked rice and/or oatmeal. All the time having the base of kibble available to them. I also have Cottage Cheese or Yogurt that I will add on oposite days of the eggs.

Does this sound any better? Not having an attitude about it at all, I really appreciate everyones concern and responses.

Thanks