I like this dog. Thoughts? - Page 2

I said I dont care ABOUT the helper work, Im not assessing him. 
Im looking at the dog.

How can you comment about defense, when there really is none shown?

Drivey no doubt.. Ive seen prey monsters, this dog is not one.  Good drives overall.  Seems have good grips, shake, bite and excellent bark n hold-naturally.

I dont see him as a sleeve focused dog,  such as we see in the sport world all too often.

For Sport work, dogs are worked in prey, least the competitive ones.  Im not sure I understand your point???

the video tells you everything you need to know about this dog...at least in the protection phase. the dog is a medium dog, he is nothing special, the training is very normal for germany and some places in the states. the helper is actually pretty well known. his helperwork is exactly what this dog needs, if you disagree with that then you probably dont do helperwork for schutzhund, inexperienced, or haven't traveled to see other successful helpers work dogs with issues. Now with all that out of the way... and back to the dog, the dog is not 100% confident in his prey drive, his "defense" if you choose to use that word is mediorce and for show (which is ok). the dog is being worked like he is on the sleeve after the escape for a reason, its to show the dog to keep fighting after he makes the grip (it doesnt mean the dog needs help to stay on the grip, it means they want him to fight a little before the out) this technique can be used to make the dog seem more powerful than his normal grip might be or to correct a problem with the dog becoming conditioned to the routine of outing after a certain number of steps in the escape. i dont like how the dog bounces back and forth before he takes the grip while being posted out, i would rather see the dog out at the end of the line and focused on the helper using his energy in the bark instead of moving his body for no reason or reward... the elevation of the dog just puts a distance between the dog and the sleeve and teaches a prey oriented dog to focus on the helper's face (that is why the helper is "feeding" the dogs drive and barking" it is working somewhat because the dog probably used to be really focused on the sleeve and obviously has a problem staying clean in the gaurding. the dog is average, he is not a "top" level dog or a dog that will wow anyone in the protection phase, but thats what is great about schutzhund, there are two other phases to the sport and who knows how he is or could be in either of those?! he is a normal working dog.....nothing more nothing less....btw, these folks are training a large number of dogs with a lot of potential and getting more titles on them than most groups are, so its hard to argue with what they are doing as far as the training goes......

Uglydog, why ask for opinons if you're just going to argue.

The dog is working in prey and the helper is keeping the work to 'prey' and giving the dog wins.  I agree with 'tpettit' the grips are nice but nothing special, the dog is nothing spectacular.

And bullshit he's not equipment oriented.  In his bark and hold he comes in and immediately bumps and pushes at the SLEEVE to get action from it, it's not until the helper gives him a few whaps that he even recognizes the man is there.

And bullshit he's not equipment oriented.
In his bark and hold he comes in and immediately bumps and pushes at the SLEEVE to get action from it, it's not until the helper gives him a few whaps that he even recognizes the man is there.



I dont think this has anything to do with the equiptment...very little in fact.

Until I see the dog work with a muzzle, we'll have to just disagree.

Again, nothing special.  Made more than he is by the helper work.

I AGREE with FHtracker....made more than he is by the helper....a testament to reading dogs and actually "training" instead of just working the routine.....nice to see someone make a dog better than he could have been without the ability to teach them something

'The dog must come into the blind in defense and come into aggression when it comes directly into the confrontation zone of the decoy. I like to see a dog bark just before it comes into the blind. (It did)
When the dog first comes into the blind I will show some aggression in the beginning of training to show there is a fight in the blind.
As the dog comes down in defense and comes into aggression then I would show less aggression to the dog.'
The dog does not want to hold the helper, he wants to make him react.'


The Issue I saw in the H&B is dog understanding that barking is a required element before biting, and needs some work to will to get on the right track. Handling issue.

I didnt say he was a world competitor, just that I liked his intensity, and an interesting dog to discuss based on what is provided.
A Suit mightve been better evaluator.

I like that roll he has off his bark. Pretty rabbity I think.

This is example of what I think a well balanced dog is and should be.
Comments are welcome.

I can't tell you how many helpers have told me my dog was sleeve oriented--maybe 15? 20? Well, yesterday when she saw a  bitesuit she bit the chest/armpit first time out as if she'd always been doing it and never even glanced at the arm. The helper said, ok, she is definitely not equipment oriented. She also bit a hidden sleeve without hesitating. I don't think I'm going to believe any more helpers on that one unless they actually try the dog out with something other than a sleeve. I mean, the dog spent 6 years with helpers shoving a sleeve in her face; was she supposed to know she could ignore it and bite the men elsewhere to prove herself? How, with a sleeve right there? I'm hoping someone can actually tell me a definitive way to tell for sure.

How do you guys know for sure that the dog in this thread is equipment oriented? What would you have said if the bi dog in the OP had ignored the sleeve and tried to go for the man? My girl often comes into the blind slightly dirty like that too. It proves nada, IMO. Of course, if you have actually TRAINED with that dog and know that he won't bite unless there's a sleeve, OK then, it makes sense.