Tribute to the DDR - Page 2

GREAT JOB. Thanks for that

So many people now lament that these dogs are all gone. No one thought to breed them. Only a few dedicated hold out breeders in the former DDR are largely to be thanked for saving something. If we don't do this in the next ten years, the gene pool will be so small that there will not be enough to work with. As it is, we've lost so much..

Before the Martin brothers' dynasty began, dogs like Marko and Bodo / Bernd were the rule, rather than the exception. In this regard, the dogs we came to know as DDR dogs were commonplace.. old type dogs from many different regions, rich colors, diverse gene pool. The DDR dogs and the W. German working lines preserved a little bit of what the breed was, before. Thank goodness for this!

Preserving the DDR lines is really just a matter of preserving genetic diversity and an image of the breed as it was, before it became an over commercialized show dog.

What I have come to realize.. This is very interesting, I think.. Is that when there is a mixing of the "modern" dogs and the old type DDR dogs, the old type dogs almost always dominate and stamp the offspring and grandkids. What this means is that the old genes are lurking in the "modern" dogs, just below the surface, and spring back when re-united with the more original type dogs.

I do like to see some people keeping the old lines as pure as possible, because it helps to protect from diffusion and dilution.. so that an archetypal DDR dog is preserved for future resource. However.. absolute "purity" is impractical at this point, maybe impossible, really.. and the hybrids are excellent. At one time I was more of a purist, but I have to admit that the dogs I have now may have about 1/16 W. German blood in them. Should we throw the baby out with the bathwater, to serve some sort of senseless principle of purity? I think not. If that course were followed, more bloodlines would be lost. It would be a tragic mistake.

When I first got started in the breed, I remember a couple.. Leo and Mildred Müller.. who lived locally.. bred to Sieger Marko vom Cellerland and the pups.. all ten of them.. were in their Schutzhund club. All but one OFA certified, and this was a big deal back then. Also, at that time.. Sieger Bodo vom Lierberg lived maybe 50 miles away from me in another direction. I remember seeing Eric Renner at the shows. He'd usually bring a couple of males with him. I don't think he ever brought Bodo.. who ended up at International Guiding Eyes as a stud dog. But he brought Harald vom Haus Tigges and Bodo's son, Hasso vom Lahnblick, I think.

Aside from Bodo and Bernd, there was another litter brother named Bandit, who went to the UK. For this reason, this B litter Lierberg is mentioned in Dr Malcolm Willis' excellent book on the UK GSDs. He said that this litter is quite possibly the best litter ever bred! I remember meeting a young blind man who trained / proved dogs at Int'l Guiding Eyes, and he said that he would always tell when one of the dogs leading him was from Bodo. These dogs were said to produce excellent nerve and intelligence and trainability. Some of the people used to say that Betty vom Eningsfeld was the true source of greatness in this litter, but Vello was an important dog.

Now, when you consider how important Bernd was in the DDR bloodlines at their peak... through double granddaughter Burga vom Haus Himpel.. arguably one of the best producing bitches ever in the DDR... and consider also that Bernd's sire was Vello zu den sieben Faulen, and that Vello's line is the same bloodline shared with the Canto / Quanto cross (through Lido and Liane Wienerau and Jalk Fohlenbrunnen), then you see that we are all basically apples falling on opposite sides of the same tree, maybe a branch or two removed. So, really.. What of all the talk of purity? All of the great dogs of that day in W. Germany were descended from Vello vom 7 Faulen and Valet vom Busecker Schloß.

Don't get me wrong.. I am still all for as much purity as possible. Someone needs to do this. But it is not possible or practical for most breeders to do this. I think that the small amount of remaining bloodlines today are arguably not sufficient to go forward with, without some infusion of other blood, down the road. In my mind, many of the W. German working lines are very suitable for this purpose and have been developed well enough over the years to have many fine individuals available.

whats the difference between the working line today with the DDR in terms of standard and temperment?

There is only one SV standard and it applies to all GSDs.
The DDR discussion is around TYPE and bloodlines.
Purity is a ridiculous notion as there is really no pure DDR line worth talking about today.
All the best DDR dogs today have Bernd Lierberg, who is also behind the best West German working lines. (Most people don't realize that even Fero had Bernd)
DDR dogs, West German WL and SV showline all  have a heavy basis on Rolf Onasbrucker Land who was born before the split. He is probably the one post war dog whose line is in all of today's modern lines, even his littermate Rosel was behind Lance of Fran-Jo of ASS (American show shepherds).
The one dog most responsible for setting the distinctive DDR temperament type was Ali vom Gränert, who like Bernd and Vello came down from Rolf.
The one dog most responsible for setting the DDR physical phenotype was Ringo von der Schiebockmühle, whose type even goes back to Baldur vom Befreiungsplatz.
Everyone can look them up in this database.
DDR-DSH and Silbersee are correct but there is misinformation on other posts.
I agree with Werner Schulz of Parchimer Land who states: "There are always discussions about 100% or pure DDR Bloodlines. At the end it is a decision that has to be made by yourselves. The argument that the origin of the German Shepherd Dog is just one dog can't be denied. Anyways I would advise especially newcomers to use the expression "DDR Bloodline" not pure or 100% DDR. " (http://www.parchimer-land.de/)
In a way, it is a good thing that the Wall fell in 1989 (of course for lots of good reasons), but one benefit was it prevented DDR dogs from turning into SV showlines!
The DDR was starting to import the black and red SV showlines of the Martin Brothers at that stage since most people in the DDR by that time thought that everything West was better. An inferiority complex brought about by politics which took decades to correct.
But purely because of the luck of timing, the DDR type was preserved. Of course a lot of DDR dogs were sold off to the US, South Africa, Australia, etc. as the relatively poorer people of the former DDR were grateful for the hard currency. Most of the West German breeders looked down on the DDR dogs as inferior again brought about by politics.
Today, the most important thing is to retain the traditional DDR type while retaining enough genetic diversity for good health of the population.
One thing to emulate is the development of the Czech type which is of course based on DDR bloodlines (but not totally as some people mistakenly think ,as there are Czech GSD bloodlines pre-dating WW2 since Czechoslovakia had a huge German population).
The way to do this is to selectively cross DDR lines with Czech and West German working lines that have the same phenotype and temperament. Fortunately, for DDR aficionados the type seems to be prepotent and easily preserved. The thing to avoid is to keep breeding poor examples of the DDR dogs simply to be able to advertise "100% DDR" puppies, an advertising slogan that unfortunately hooks the uninformed.
DDR dogs should not be given a pass in terms of temperament or working ability just because they look good. It should just be realized that their characteristics are different but they should be schutzhund or HGH titled and breed tested just like any other line.

DDR-Shep and DDR-DSH both of your posts are very good and very informative . My current breeding program is based on the assimilation of the Czech/DDR/West workinglines. A solid base of genetic diversity with maintaining phenotype preferences allows you to continue the breed in strong structure and temperament ensuring the dog will continue to be valued and used for what it was created.JMO

DDRshep
Today, the most important thing is to retain the traditional DDR type while retaining enough genetic diversity for good health of the population.
This is the best statement here.

Keep in mind that in genetics you are not loosing anything. You may muddle it  but it is still there , it is aways there and what ever was there will be there for ever. In genetics code nothing disappears.
Thus do not despair about dogs of certain type are gone. They are not they may not demonstrate often enough in phenotype but are hidden in the genotype.
Sometimes it is hard to recreate it if the bloodline disappears like the first bloodline. But it is there anyway from Horandt v Grafrath and his mutely parents and so on. 

Practically what needs to be done is to recognize these qualities of the "DDR dogs" in any bloodline and promote them through proper breeding practices. The DDR purists or any purists are doing disservice to the breed by narrowing the genetic pool with these qualities and subsequently painting themselves into the corner in dead end street. These qualities must be recognized in all the shepherds and promoted regardless from what geographical areas they came from.  This must be done with total GSD in mind. It is good to see the quality of let say DDR linesor   z Pohranicni straze line and build around it, but if you do that then keep in mind that you are linebreeding and then you now and then must outcross into different line which has desired qualities and if the result is good  then line breed back on it in the original line.
 Purity is a nice word but needs to be applied to proper target.
 The total GSD!
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com