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by jletcher18 on 05 March 2010 - 02:03
ok, this is going to take some time and work.
do a "reverse linebreeding" search on crok. it will list all dogs on the database who are linebreed on him. you will have to check them out one by one and see if they have any progeny listed. if so you will be able to see what they crossed it with. like i said it will take some time.
link to crok reverse linebreeding
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/reverse_linebreeding.html?hund=13877
john
do a "reverse linebreeding" search on crok. it will list all dogs on the database who are linebreed on him. you will have to check them out one by one and see if they have any progeny listed. if so you will be able to see what they crossed it with. like i said it will take some time.
link to crok reverse linebreeding
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/reverse_linebreeding.html?hund=13877
john
by BlackthornGSD on 05 March 2010 - 08:03
It's fun to see a Yoyo grand-daughter doing well. Yoyo was a lot of fun--super agile and wicked smart and a lot of fun to hang out with--not a mean bone in her body, but she didn't back down to anything either and she wasn't kidding around in the bitework. I handled her a few times--I think for some helper tryouts... Molly do you remember?
She could undo the clips on her kennel door, which almost got me in trouble with Molly, until she found the clip on the floor where Yoyo had left it.
Brix is line-bred on Crok, but the other dogs in her pedigree are nice and solid too, which is always nice to see. Gustl was such an impressive dog too.
I'm not super familiar with what Crok bloodlines combine well with, so I'm not able to contribute much of an answer to your question, but I agree it'd be worth shooting an email to Molly and see what she thinks.
Christine
blackthornkennel.com
She could undo the clips on her kennel door, which almost got me in trouble with Molly, until she found the clip on the floor where Yoyo had left it.
Brix is line-bred on Crok, but the other dogs in her pedigree are nice and solid too, which is always nice to see. Gustl was such an impressive dog too.
I'm not super familiar with what Crok bloodlines combine well with, so I'm not able to contribute much of an answer to your question, but I agree it'd be worth shooting an email to Molly and see what she thinks.
Christine
blackthornkennel.com
by beetree on 05 March 2010 - 09:03
LDoghandler: Crok is well known in the workingline community for being one beautiful bi-color, with the reputation and titles of being one mean, biting machine. Not a dog for the faint of heart. At least that is my generalized knowledge. Check out the pedigree listed at the top of ths thread and you will find Crok. And a couple other dogs of awe are in his pedigree as well.
If I got this wrong, someone will come along and set me straight. So, if someone wants to linebreed on a Crok daughter, you can pretty much guess they want a dog that will separate the men from the boys.
If I got this wrong, someone will come along and set me straight. So, if someone wants to linebreed on a Crok daughter, you can pretty much guess they want a dog that will separate the men from the boys.
by Gustav on 05 March 2010 - 13:03
A few thoughts on what i would breed a Crok linebred female on. First, I think that genetically you have a good base on the female side especially if there are no extreme aggression issues. This answer is really without studying the makeup of the 3-3 on Crok to see what has been combined with your current Crok insertions.
My first priority would be to go to a dog that has a long history on both parental sides of rock solid nerve. Too many times I have seen people go to opposites in breeding to compensate a lack. Dog has soft temp. and they go to a hard dog. Dog has low threshholds and they go reactive dog. I always believe in trying to maintain balance which is usually in the middle. Two extremes don't give a good foundation for future balance. People often don't think about what they are creating must be a foundation for future breedings,JMO. I would also look to a dog with strong history or SG/V structure. Mink was not known for his V rated progeny. Good solid prey drive but no over the top if the nerve is compromised. I could go on but these are just general thoughts. Lines like Maineche, Oberhausener-Kreuz, come to mind. Hey, this is all speculation, but just the way I would approach on the surface.
My first priority would be to go to a dog that has a long history on both parental sides of rock solid nerve. Too many times I have seen people go to opposites in breeding to compensate a lack. Dog has soft temp. and they go to a hard dog. Dog has low threshholds and they go reactive dog. I always believe in trying to maintain balance which is usually in the middle. Two extremes don't give a good foundation for future balance. People often don't think about what they are creating must be a foundation for future breedings,JMO. I would also look to a dog with strong history or SG/V structure. Mink was not known for his V rated progeny. Good solid prey drive but no over the top if the nerve is compromised. I could go on but these are just general thoughts. Lines like Maineche, Oberhausener-Kreuz, come to mind. Hey, this is all speculation, but just the way I would approach on the surface.
by darylehret on 05 March 2010 - 14:03
I decided years back that I would avoid Mink bred lines, precisely because I intend to linebred. It would be too difficult to try to maintain a proper balance in the long term.
by ziegenfarm on 05 March 2010 - 17:03
it seems that the issues that people have had with crok sons and grandsons do not neccessarily carry over to the females. when i first read your post, i had something from bandit oberhausener kreuz in mind. after reading gustav's post, i wanted to underscore what was said about nerves, thresholds and relying on the opposites for results. i have always said that breeding dogs is nothing like mixing paint......though some folks think it is. mixing red with white does not guarantee you will get pink. and, no, i am not referring to colors, but just using that as an example. ;) i thought it was interesting that gustav also mentioned oberhausener kreuz. regardless of what direction you go, i hope that you will choose a SOLID male that comes from a line bred from good, solid dogs. your results should then be quite successful. let us know which way you go so we can watch for the litter.
pjp
pjp
by Mystere on 05 March 2010 - 18:03
I tend to agree with the observation that the Crok "issues" seem to manifest more in sons and grandsons than in female descendants. Still, there are bitches whose behaviors on the field tell you clearly that Crok is in the mix, usually from "very" to extreme aggression. I agree with Gustav that nerve is critical in your breeding decisions. The Crok "brand" of aggression needs to be coupled with rock solid nerves, or you have a mess.
Gustav, perhaps you can answer this: Why do we not see as much Korbelbach/Korbeltal as previously?
Gustav, perhaps you can answer this: Why do we not see as much Korbelbach/Korbeltal as previously?
by Gustav on 05 March 2010 - 21:03
Hips!!
by Gustav on 05 March 2010 - 21:03
Let me also say that I know many people can give examples of these progeny with good hips. But Gildo and others brought some wonderful things to the table but again you have to differentiate between a dog for breeding and a dog for owning. A dog for extensive breeding (so as to see a lot of it in pedigrees) cannot give hip problems if you backmass on them. So these lines you mentioned Mystere are good,IMO, for going to to add something, but not good lines to breed ON...if that makes any sense.
by vonjager on 07 March 2010 - 13:03
I want you all to know that I am hanging on every word. Please keep the input coming!
Kelly
Kelly
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