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by hodie on 21 February 2010 - 19:02
Maxbear,
Does the dog itch and scratch or chew or what?
What kind of surface is the dog on most of the time? And what do you feed the dog? Far too many people assume an allergy to be related to food, but it can be a possibilty. More often, it is an environmental exposure. In his case, it may be a hormonal imbalance. Has his thyroid and kidney function been tested recently? And have you tried adding something like Prozyme to help him absorb more nutients? What about a fish oil capsule?
Does the dog itch and scratch or chew or what?
What kind of surface is the dog on most of the time? And what do you feed the dog? Far too many people assume an allergy to be related to food, but it can be a possibilty. More often, it is an environmental exposure. In his case, it may be a hormonal imbalance. Has his thyroid and kidney function been tested recently? And have you tried adding something like Prozyme to help him absorb more nutients? What about a fish oil capsule?
by MaxBear on 21 February 2010 - 20:02
Hodie,
Nicco does it all....he corn rows his legs....he licks and chews his paws......he bites/chews the edge area of his hips and sometimes chews his tail. He takes his rear paws and rips at the area next to his elbows, face and ears.....has been going after...LIP area till it bleeds.
In the last 6 months I have replaced all the carpet in the house with hardwood flooring and congolium. Only carpeting one small area with a high grade nylon hypoallergenic carpet and pad. The only area left in the house to replace old carpet is the stairs and a very short hallway area, upstairs. He walks on that, but does not lay in that area.
The Vet has not checked his Thyroid...to my knowledge.....she has run many tests on him though. How is it tested? He has had a complete battery of allergy tests...even down to types of grass, trees, foods, I recieved a complete breakdown with rating's for all items that he tested positive for. I have eliminated all of these items I possibly could. He has been dipped 3 times....also. He was on steriods this past month and that just made things worse in my eyes.....mentally not the same dog at all (as if doped) Constant drinking of water and craving food. Normally a very good eating and drinking habit, not when on the steroid...as he was weaned off the scratching and chewing started increasing again.
He has been on 17 different foods....now on the crappy.but most effective so far...SD (Hills) DD formula Potatoe /Salmon....at least with this his stools are good. Most other's either have something he tested positive too or he has constant runs with. I have been working him towards RAW too.....now down to 2 cups of kibble and beef cubes/steak daily. Yes I give him Grizzly Salmon oil and he gets a capsule of Aller G-3 daily. No, I have not tried the Prozyme....I will look this up and read about it...Thanks!
Any other thought's would be appreciated!
Nicco does it all....he corn rows his legs....he licks and chews his paws......he bites/chews the edge area of his hips and sometimes chews his tail. He takes his rear paws and rips at the area next to his elbows, face and ears.....has been going after...LIP area till it bleeds.
In the last 6 months I have replaced all the carpet in the house with hardwood flooring and congolium. Only carpeting one small area with a high grade nylon hypoallergenic carpet and pad. The only area left in the house to replace old carpet is the stairs and a very short hallway area, upstairs. He walks on that, but does not lay in that area.
The Vet has not checked his Thyroid...to my knowledge.....she has run many tests on him though. How is it tested? He has had a complete battery of allergy tests...even down to types of grass, trees, foods, I recieved a complete breakdown with rating's for all items that he tested positive for. I have eliminated all of these items I possibly could. He has been dipped 3 times....also. He was on steriods this past month and that just made things worse in my eyes.....mentally not the same dog at all (as if doped) Constant drinking of water and craving food. Normally a very good eating and drinking habit, not when on the steroid...as he was weaned off the scratching and chewing started increasing again.
He has been on 17 different foods....now on the crappy.but most effective so far...SD (Hills) DD formula Potatoe /Salmon....at least with this his stools are good. Most other's either have something he tested positive too or he has constant runs with. I have been working him towards RAW too.....now down to 2 cups of kibble and beef cubes/steak daily. Yes I give him Grizzly Salmon oil and he gets a capsule of Aller G-3 daily. No, I have not tried the Prozyme....I will look this up and read about it...Thanks!
Any other thought's would be appreciated!
by hodie on 21 February 2010 - 21:02
MaxBear,
As a minimum, the thyroid function of the dog must be tested. It is a simple and relatively cheap blood test. Also, you must ask about his kidney function. Kidneys that don't function properly can lead to severe itching.
I am puzzled about the comment on steroids. They should help, even if they make him drink more. They should not make him dopey at all, and I wonder if there was not something else going on. I have given many, many dogs steroids and taken them myself and this is not a common side effect at all.
The drinking a lot of water is a side effect of steroids, but usually that will subside a bit as the dog gets used to the steroid dose. Sometimes dogs with the severity of signs you mention really need to be on a low dose for life. Is it the best thing? No, but neither is the itching you describe. I would talk to the vet about putting him on a low dose say 10 mg, or maybe 20 mg, just to see if he is not much improved over time.
It is good that you have the dog on a food that he tolerates. I would not mess with that at this time by adding anything else food wise. What is his skin like? Does he have any lesions at all? Hot spots? Have you tried a grain free food ever? What is he supposedly positive for in tests and how were these tests conducted? When was the last time his stool was tested for parasites?
Does he lie on anything that is washed in detergent? Does he lie on grass? Does he get any treats at all? IF so, what?
As a minimum, the thyroid function of the dog must be tested. It is a simple and relatively cheap blood test. Also, you must ask about his kidney function. Kidneys that don't function properly can lead to severe itching.
I am puzzled about the comment on steroids. They should help, even if they make him drink more. They should not make him dopey at all, and I wonder if there was not something else going on. I have given many, many dogs steroids and taken them myself and this is not a common side effect at all.
The drinking a lot of water is a side effect of steroids, but usually that will subside a bit as the dog gets used to the steroid dose. Sometimes dogs with the severity of signs you mention really need to be on a low dose for life. Is it the best thing? No, but neither is the itching you describe. I would talk to the vet about putting him on a low dose say 10 mg, or maybe 20 mg, just to see if he is not much improved over time.
It is good that you have the dog on a food that he tolerates. I would not mess with that at this time by adding anything else food wise. What is his skin like? Does he have any lesions at all? Hot spots? Have you tried a grain free food ever? What is he supposedly positive for in tests and how were these tests conducted? When was the last time his stool was tested for parasites?
Does he lie on anything that is washed in detergent? Does he lie on grass? Does he get any treats at all? IF so, what?
by starrchar on 22 February 2010 - 02:02
MaxBear,
In addition to what Hodie said, here are some other thoughts that I have. A source of great information is the yahoo group - allerdog.com. My rescue LCGSD is an allergic dog and I got a lot of help form the folks there. My dog is on a raw diet, Grizzly Salmon oil & Kelp (for skin and coat health), a strong probiotic (to maintain proper intestinal flora), digestive enzymes (such as Prozyme to enhance digestion), Milk Thistle (to cleanse), Echinacea (to build her immune system), Chlorella and Spirulina (for chelation of metals and other toxins). I don't use all the herbals at the same time- I rotate. She gets NO GRAINS at all. For treats I give her dehydrated sweet potato chips, dehydrated lamb or beef treats- all made in the USA. I also make my own treats by cooking a roast and cutting it up into treat size portions and freezing them. She's also been on antibiotics and Temaril-P and both helped my dog, but a dog can't stay on them forever. She has had her thyroid tested and it is fine, but you should definitely test your dog. Make sure they do a full thyroid profile. I think it's called a 5 panel if my memory serves me right. Use only green products in your house. Don't use anything with a strong fragrance, inlcuding, but not limited to laundry detergent, dish soap, hand soaps, air fresheners,fabric fresheners such as Febreeze, scented candles, diffusers, scented soaps, fabric softener sheets. I try to buy "free and clear" everything. When you wash your dog's bedding, double rinse it. Also, don't use bedding with cedar chips. When bathing your dog use a shampoo that is free of soap and one that is completely hypoallergenic with no fragrance at all, not even natural herbal fragrances. I know a lot of the above may seem extreme, but the truth is that all those fragrances are not good for people either, so making those changes really helps everyone in the house. Try to use flea, tick and heartworm as sparingly as possible- remember all of those products are poisons and they only add insult to injury to an immune compromised dog. Same applies for vaccines. There is a lot evidence to show that most vaccines in dogs last 7-10 years. Do titers on your dog instead. I know you may have done a lot of these things, but I figured it doesn't hurt to mention them. I really hope you can get help for your dog. As I said before dealing with an allergy dog is so trying. I commend you for not giving up on your dog. He is lucky to have you. Please kepe us posted as to his progress with this study.
In addition to what Hodie said, here are some other thoughts that I have. A source of great information is the yahoo group - allerdog.com. My rescue LCGSD is an allergic dog and I got a lot of help form the folks there. My dog is on a raw diet, Grizzly Salmon oil & Kelp (for skin and coat health), a strong probiotic (to maintain proper intestinal flora), digestive enzymes (such as Prozyme to enhance digestion), Milk Thistle (to cleanse), Echinacea (to build her immune system), Chlorella and Spirulina (for chelation of metals and other toxins). I don't use all the herbals at the same time- I rotate. She gets NO GRAINS at all. For treats I give her dehydrated sweet potato chips, dehydrated lamb or beef treats- all made in the USA. I also make my own treats by cooking a roast and cutting it up into treat size portions and freezing them. She's also been on antibiotics and Temaril-P and both helped my dog, but a dog can't stay on them forever. She has had her thyroid tested and it is fine, but you should definitely test your dog. Make sure they do a full thyroid profile. I think it's called a 5 panel if my memory serves me right. Use only green products in your house. Don't use anything with a strong fragrance, inlcuding, but not limited to laundry detergent, dish soap, hand soaps, air fresheners,fabric fresheners such as Febreeze, scented candles, diffusers, scented soaps, fabric softener sheets. I try to buy "free and clear" everything. When you wash your dog's bedding, double rinse it. Also, don't use bedding with cedar chips. When bathing your dog use a shampoo that is free of soap and one that is completely hypoallergenic with no fragrance at all, not even natural herbal fragrances. I know a lot of the above may seem extreme, but the truth is that all those fragrances are not good for people either, so making those changes really helps everyone in the house. Try to use flea, tick and heartworm as sparingly as possible- remember all of those products are poisons and they only add insult to injury to an immune compromised dog. Same applies for vaccines. There is a lot evidence to show that most vaccines in dogs last 7-10 years. Do titers on your dog instead. I know you may have done a lot of these things, but I figured it doesn't hurt to mention them. I really hope you can get help for your dog. As I said before dealing with an allergy dog is so trying. I commend you for not giving up on your dog. He is lucky to have you. Please kepe us posted as to his progress with this study.
by Dash2 on 22 February 2010 - 02:02
I've just been to a lecture by Jean Dodds known for her work with canine thyroid problems. She's also doing work with allergies. She does thyroid testing that's more comprehensive than normal. I don't think the cost is very expensive. I would get some sort of thyroid test done at least to help rule it out as a contributor to your dog's problems.
D2
D2
by MaxBear on 22 February 2010 - 13:02
Hodie......Allergy Test Results
Nicco had a 8 panel allergy test.....it breaks down as follows;
WEEDS:
Plaintain 2
Russian Thistle 1
Rough Pigweed 2
Yellow Dock 2
TREES:
Sycamore 3
Birch 1
Elm 1
GRASSES:
Rye 3
June 2
Orchard 2
EPIDERMALS:
Human Dander 3
Cat Dander 2
Sheep Wool 2
HOUSE DUST MITES:
D. farinae 2
MOLDS:
Alternaria 3
Mucor 2
INSECTS:
Cockroach 2
FOODS:
Eggs 3
Peas 3
Corn 2
Yeast 2
Oat 2
Rice 2
Turkey 2
Chicken 1
Duck 1
Milk 1
Lamb 1
I will answer your other questions on the next post.
Nicco had a 8 panel allergy test.....it breaks down as follows;
WEEDS:
Plaintain 2
Russian Thistle 1
Rough Pigweed 2
Yellow Dock 2
TREES:
Sycamore 3
Birch 1
Elm 1
GRASSES:
Rye 3
June 2
Orchard 2
EPIDERMALS:
Human Dander 3
Cat Dander 2
Sheep Wool 2
HOUSE DUST MITES:
D. farinae 2
MOLDS:
Alternaria 3
Mucor 2
INSECTS:
Cockroach 2
FOODS:
Eggs 3
Peas 3
Corn 2
Yeast 2
Oat 2
Rice 2
Turkey 2
Chicken 1
Duck 1
Milk 1
Lamb 1
I will answer your other questions on the next post.
by MaxBear on 22 February 2010 - 13:02
Hodie,
His skin is fine as long as I stay on top of him, preventing him from chewing or scratching too much. When I lose this battle he turns it a hot red and has torn into it a few times. When he has formed a few lesions he has been treated with antibiotics 3 times....this got things back to normal. He does keep the coat very thin on the edges of his hip and spots on his ears sometimes...again depending on whether he sneeks in more scratching or chewing before I catch him. He and I are on a 24/7 schedule with him under my watch all but maybe a few minutes a day. This does make sleeping tuff, but he sleeps on his bed riight next to my bed at night.....I have his collar rigged so I hear him id chewing or scratching...when he does I reach down and stop him. No hot spots since 9 months old...again I stay on him before he can make things too raw. I have his stool tested every 4 months, has always been negative, was negative just 2 days ago (Vet Appt This past Sat morning). I have him on grain free food now and have only found 3 types that were totally grain free. The other two did not work, runs all the time. There were other grain free foods, but not without having something in them that he was very allergic too. Anything he lies on is washed in Borax and rinsed twice and air dried. No, he does not lay on grass, he walks on it in his area to take care of business only. I built him a 35 foot by 50 foot play area with a 6 foot pvc fence. It has a paver floor and an area in cedar shavings and an area in pocono river stone 3/4 rounds. He is not allergic to cedar nor the huge maple tree that shades this area. I'll post pic's later so you can see what he hangs out in, when outside. The treats he gets are grain free and free of any ingredients that he tested positive too....they were the only treats we could find that were free of all items he has problems with. I also freeze steak and beef cubes I cut up for him and give as rewards while training and treats for just being such a wonderful companion and buddy. I think I covered everything you asked me...hope so.
Thanks Again!
His skin is fine as long as I stay on top of him, preventing him from chewing or scratching too much. When I lose this battle he turns it a hot red and has torn into it a few times. When he has formed a few lesions he has been treated with antibiotics 3 times....this got things back to normal. He does keep the coat very thin on the edges of his hip and spots on his ears sometimes...again depending on whether he sneeks in more scratching or chewing before I catch him. He and I are on a 24/7 schedule with him under my watch all but maybe a few minutes a day. This does make sleeping tuff, but he sleeps on his bed riight next to my bed at night.....I have his collar rigged so I hear him id chewing or scratching...when he does I reach down and stop him. No hot spots since 9 months old...again I stay on him before he can make things too raw. I have his stool tested every 4 months, has always been negative, was negative just 2 days ago (Vet Appt This past Sat morning). I have him on grain free food now and have only found 3 types that were totally grain free. The other two did not work, runs all the time. There were other grain free foods, but not without having something in them that he was very allergic too. Anything he lies on is washed in Borax and rinsed twice and air dried. No, he does not lay on grass, he walks on it in his area to take care of business only. I built him a 35 foot by 50 foot play area with a 6 foot pvc fence. It has a paver floor and an area in cedar shavings and an area in pocono river stone 3/4 rounds. He is not allergic to cedar nor the huge maple tree that shades this area. I'll post pic's later so you can see what he hangs out in, when outside. The treats he gets are grain free and free of any ingredients that he tested positive too....they were the only treats we could find that were free of all items he has problems with. I also freeze steak and beef cubes I cut up for him and give as rewards while training and treats for just being such a wonderful companion and buddy. I think I covered everything you asked me...hope so.
Thanks Again!
by Mystere on 22 February 2010 - 13:02
What do those values mean? My personal panel ranged from 8 (yes, I am allergic to dogs!!!) to 35 (cats). I am now allergic to bee stings and that must be over 35.
Is your dog actually allergic to *human* dander? Odd, it never even occurred to me that a dog could have such an allergy.
by MaxBear on 22 February 2010 - 14:02
Starcharr,
Thank you for all the info, some of these things we can try, some we can't due to his allergy results. Thanks for taking the time to let me know what you did for your Rescue GSD. I will be getting his Thyroid tested...ASAP I do use red cedar for his outside play area (He has no reaction to red cedar, tested a perfect 0...... I will have to get the better half to stop burning the candles...Hmmmmmm I had not even thought about that...Thanks! I also just messed up again, I guess.....he just got his shots this past Saturday morning.....I assume Rabies shot is all by law I have to insure he gets? I will speak with the Vet about this today also.....Thanks again!
Dash2,
Thanks Dash I will be getting the thyroid test done ASAP I will also look up Jean Dodds and read what she has researched....Thank you so much for bringing her to my attention!
Thank you for all the info, some of these things we can try, some we can't due to his allergy results. Thanks for taking the time to let me know what you did for your Rescue GSD. I will be getting his Thyroid tested...ASAP I do use red cedar for his outside play area (He has no reaction to red cedar, tested a perfect 0...... I will have to get the better half to stop burning the candles...Hmmmmmm I had not even thought about that...Thanks! I also just messed up again, I guess.....he just got his shots this past Saturday morning.....I assume Rabies shot is all by law I have to insure he gets? I will speak with the Vet about this today also.....Thanks again!
Dash2,
Thanks Dash I will be getting the thyroid test done ASAP I will also look up Jean Dodds and read what she has researched....Thank you so much for bringing her to my attention!
by MaxBear on 22 February 2010 - 14:02
Mystere,
Yes he is very allergic to human Dander.....yes to ME...:O( But he is my shadow! It sucks!!!! It has also made socializing almost impossible, training with other folks and in a training facility almost impossible...yes that sucks too! I'm sorry I should have stated the Value to the numbers..I just assumed ya'll would already know that...sorry.
The system runs from 0 to 6 with 1 being Low Level 3 being a High Level and 6 being an Ultra High Level. Thankfully he had to 5's or 6's........if so the Vet said he would be raw skinned most of the time if around those items with a 5 or 6.
The one thin g though that I have noticed....Stress is his main problem...that triggers his scratching and chewing. When I have him doing training or playing with his toys he is fine. If someone approaches him he does not know he will watch, bark when too close and get upset which will then lead to scratching, once the unknown has been delt with. If he is immediately given something else to occupy his mind he will stop...asap.
Yes he is very allergic to human Dander.....yes to ME...:O( But he is my shadow! It sucks!!!! It has also made socializing almost impossible, training with other folks and in a training facility almost impossible...yes that sucks too! I'm sorry I should have stated the Value to the numbers..I just assumed ya'll would already know that...sorry.
The system runs from 0 to 6 with 1 being Low Level 3 being a High Level and 6 being an Ultra High Level. Thankfully he had to 5's or 6's........if so the Vet said he would be raw skinned most of the time if around those items with a 5 or 6.
The one thin g though that I have noticed....Stress is his main problem...that triggers his scratching and chewing. When I have him doing training or playing with his toys he is fine. If someone approaches him he does not know he will watch, bark when too close and get upset which will then lead to scratching, once the unknown has been delt with. If he is immediately given something else to occupy his mind he will stop...asap.
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