Proofing the off leash - Page 2

It's too early for this dog to be working without reward.  Notice how many times his ears change position every time he feels stress.  He definitely is stressed on the about turns.  He should drive through and out of those turns.  The most energy he showed was out of the first about turn where maybe he thought he was going to get a reward but got nothing.  Handler is not walking in a straight line but veering toward the dog,,,,common mistake with beginners who want to feel the dog against their leg.  Sit while in the turns was crooked because the dog heels crooked.  Someone needs to help him with his left turns and teach the dog to tuck his back end in straight.  Handler does not execute a "left" turn but more of a push around a left corner.  Sit in motion is a little slow and definitely shows pressure.  Down in motion shows some pressure but not bad.  Recall was not straight and handler moved in front of the dog, probably created by constantly rewarding w/floppy disc from the handler's right w/the right hand.  Dog has definitely felt pressure during the heeling, probably too much leash for focus.  Seems willing but is a little afraid to make a mistake.  Should feel better about "being" with the handler as opposed to feeling pressure from what will happen for "not" being with the handler.

Ok, fair enough. 

A coach or even a  spotter would be advantageous.  Someone who can watch you & let you know when your dog comes out of about turns wide or slow, someone who can tell you when your dog is out of position, when sits are a little bit slow, etc..   The reason everyone needs someone like this, even those who are very experienced is if you try to start seeing this stuff by yourself, you will without intending, start giving body signals, because your positions will change, and very shortly these will be like double commands because your dog will only correct himself when you change your position rather than being correct,  from the getgo. 

Walking a straight line - I can't tell that he is not walking a straight line, but OK, you are right, if he is not, he needs to correct himself.  It might help the OP to pick a stationary landmark in the distance to walk towards.  

OP:  Don't sit your dog in the turns, only when you are heeling straight.  Even when heeling in the group you can choose to stop when you and your dog are parallel to each other, at a straight point, rather than on a curve, especially with a long bodied and/or large GSD.

The recall is nice, just needs a little improving.  After you down your dog, as you are walking away, take your toy and put it down the front of your shirt, but a little bit up so it is slightly visible and easy for you to grab out.  Be sure to have the toy in this position BEFORE you turn around, you want to always turn around ready and with no fidgeting around.   This way, as the dog learns this is where the reward always comes from on the recall, it will help him learn to come in straight in front of you.   When you recall your dog STAY STILL until he sits.  Then if your dog did not come in and sit  straight, start to  back up slowly, giving him the recall command (this should make him come in straighter).  When he is sitting in tight and straight, give him praise, pull the toy out of the top of your shirt SLOWLY, then and fling it over his head and give him release (throw it a little bit far, so he doesn't twist his back trying to jump and catch it all at the same time). 

Finally,  reward more frequently, for higher drive, when the dog is correct, keep in mind when training  a very young, green dog helping him to be correct, and feeling confident and drivey,  can help  and mean much more in the long run, than correcting him for being a little bit  wrong. 

See?  Was that so hard?  No one is trying to criticize but to actually help they guy get better.  Once foundation drive building is completed, a second pair of eyes is always needed.  Personally, I would break my exercises down a little more individually for sharp performance before putting them together in the complete "pattern"  Once in awhile it's good to "test" where you are with the "real deal" but I think for this dog it's too soon.

As for the recall, I would do it a little bit differently.

Phil please elaborate on how you would do the recall differently because we can all use the help, at least I know I am always looking to learn new techniques and can always use a hand and tips.

Thanks for all the tips,we hope to be ready for our BH in May..

For once i agree with Mr Behun i was going to say a similar thing but he got in first .Overall i think they are doing very well indeed for the first time and i think they will be a good team, The handler can be happy with the two of them 
One other little point though he can watch He sat the dog only once at the side of himself the handler and the Dogs rear end was out at an angle he should bring the Dog in to sit in a straight line to his leg as soon as he stops at a stand or sit and if he just touches the dog on his flank as he sits or stands will solve that for the dog will pull instantly into the Leg in a straight line
Steve1

You look good to go for your BH, providing the  long down,  and group heeling exercises are OK, and the dog is normal and traffic steady.  The other stuff is easily fixed, and really has no bearing on pass/fail BH, but a good judge will give you both constructive criticism as well as mention the positives in the critique.  All in all,  I am sure you will do fine.  Good luck and have fun!

Phil don't keep us hanging - still waiting to hear your thoughts on the recall!

If I told you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know the rest.  How am I supposed to beat you if I tell you all of my secrets?  Actually, I like to teach rep after rep with food first so the dog is conditioned to the position before I introduce the toy and increase the speed.  I'm big on "NO" second chances. Every time I see someone training this way, using "two" recalls, I wait until trial day and watch the failure of the "first" one and then I reach into my bag and pull out my "I told you so".

I stand by what I said, this is a new team and the guy deserves profs for good handling skills, most people in the beginning are not near as smooth as this person is, and it is not easy to do.  I know I sure didn't look as good in the beginning. 

I also stand by what I said about wanting to see a little more drive. I also stand by the suggestions I gave to fix certain little things.

Now rayray, why don't you tell us what you do to fix the problems you see.  While your at it, we would love to see some video of you working your dog so we can see how easy it is to be a good handler.

Hi Phil I didn't see your last post.  

When I first train the recall I train very short distances and always with the toy in the center position.  I find the toy helps pull the dog in straight and the short distance also helps keep the dog straight.  I withhold reward if the dog is not straight and back up.   But at the same time, once the dog understands the exercize  I also use light leash pop corrections, (back to short distances, so I can stand still but correct with the leash as he comes in) so my dog learns to come in and sit straight, every time.  

What bad advise rayray?  In your little mind you somehow have decided I gave bad advise and am a liar because I complimented someone on their smooth handling skills"?  Or is it that you think I gave bad advise because I teach the recall differently than Phil?   I think you are really confused, and I have news for you, there are many teaching methods, not all work perfectly for every dog or  for every handler, it's just not that simple, if it was, we might even see you in competition some day.   I see nothing in any of my statements that can be construed as contradictory.