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by SitasMom on 21 January 2010 - 22:01
had a dog once, that on the "here" command, he would get a funny look in his eye and take off. He would come back a few days later......shock collar set on high dropped him to his knees about 3 times and he never ran off again. I call "here" and he was so close that he almost knocked me over.
many of the puppies in a 3 miles radius looked just like him!
that being said, shock collars are good as a last resort.
many of the puppies in a 3 miles radius looked just like him!
that being said, shock collars are good as a last resort.
by yoshy on 21 January 2010 - 23:01
He would come back a few days later-
I'm curious to if you knew he had no recall why he would be off lead in a scenario he could flee for days? Why was he not tracked or sought after to return for days. and the way this statement was presented leads one to believe it happened more than once?
shock collar set on high dropped him to his knees about 3 times and he never ran off again-
What other methods failed to sustain a recall? why did you not train the recall with the ecollar instead of frying this dog?
many of the puppies in a 3 miles radius looked just like him!-
not sure what this means?
that being said, shock collars are good as a last resort.
are you saying only for a last resort? not to train the dog?they should only be used in a punitive fashion?
Statements like the one you just made are the reason ecollars are looked at as horrible dangerous abusive objects. not an efficient tool for training. It is an insult to those of us who train reliable dogs of all calibers day in and day out with them. So please clarify the intent of this post.
I'm curious to if you knew he had no recall why he would be off lead in a scenario he could flee for days? Why was he not tracked or sought after to return for days. and the way this statement was presented leads one to believe it happened more than once?
shock collar set on high dropped him to his knees about 3 times and he never ran off again-
What other methods failed to sustain a recall? why did you not train the recall with the ecollar instead of frying this dog?
many of the puppies in a 3 miles radius looked just like him!-
not sure what this means?
that being said, shock collars are good as a last resort.
are you saying only for a last resort? not to train the dog?they should only be used in a punitive fashion?
Statements like the one you just made are the reason ecollars are looked at as horrible dangerous abusive objects. not an efficient tool for training. It is an insult to those of us who train reliable dogs of all calibers day in and day out with them. So please clarify the intent of this post.
by Clint Gatlin on 21 January 2010 - 23:01
why is it everytime someone asks a question on this post there is always someone (moons for example) that has to think everyone else in the world is an idiot but themselves....Im just trying to educate myself as well as i can so i might not make as many mistakes with training .....Thanks to everyone else on this forum who is actually trying to help people and not here just to chastise.......
by yoshy on 21 January 2010 - 23:01
The baseline answer to the OP.
Yes they can be an extremely useful tool and it can be an easily misused one as well.
If you plan to use one in this pup later stages of training please consult an experience hand.
preferrably one with a substantial track record for producing nice dogs.
internet training never works my friend so take the advice given with a grain of salt and
find yourself a good club or good trainer and pursue your goals with your pup. That is the best advice i think
any of us can give over a forum.
if you would like references im sure with the number of people on this forum and there networking someone could probably help.
Yes they can be an extremely useful tool and it can be an easily misused one as well.
If you plan to use one in this pup later stages of training please consult an experience hand.
preferrably one with a substantial track record for producing nice dogs.
internet training never works my friend so take the advice given with a grain of salt and
find yourself a good club or good trainer and pursue your goals with your pup. That is the best advice i think
any of us can give over a forum.
if you would like references im sure with the number of people on this forum and there networking someone could probably help.
by Slamdunc on 22 January 2010 - 00:01
Sitasmom,
Thank you for illustrating one of my points exactly. People who do not understand how to use an E collar shouldn't use them. And you never put an E collar on a dog and set the collar on high the first time. E collars are not good as a last resort, they are simply a training tool. I'm guessing Eurosport doesn't read your posts on the PDB?????
Yoshy,
You are spot on. Well said and a very good explanation.
LavK9,
You made a good point about the correct use of the collar.
A dog should wear the collar for a couple of weeks before ever getting a correction from it when introducing the collar. Next, the corrections are paired with the normal training collar corrections on a low level at first. You absolutely should use the E collar in conjunction with a prong or other collar and leash corrections initially. The collar needs to be placed on the dog a couple of hours before training and left on for a couple of hours after training, this helps with the dog becoming "collar smart".
When you understand the nuances and subtleties of properly using an E collar it can be used as a positive motivation tool and not only for corrections. It can be used in tracking to move a dog along and cause it to focus on the task with out stressing a dog for example. I was given this analogy once and I think it's perfect: When little Johnny acts up in class the teacher walks by and puts her hand on Johnny's shoulder and calmly says "Johnny you need to concentrate." That is exactly how the E collar can be used in tracking for example; a gentle reminder to keep focused. My E collar a Tritronics has a buzzer feature. My dog is trained to recall when he hears the buzzer. I can send my dog into a building for a search and recall him by "buzzing." This way I don't have to call him and give my position away, it is a very tactical use of the collar.
My dog is very well trained, however, when I go to work the E collar goes on. To say that a dog is not trained if it needs an E collar is simply not true, IMO. That would mean a trained dog would never need a leash or collar once it is "trained." IMO, dogs are never fully trained they always need work to keep them sharp and correct.
JMO,
Jim
Thank you for illustrating one of my points exactly. People who do not understand how to use an E collar shouldn't use them. And you never put an E collar on a dog and set the collar on high the first time. E collars are not good as a last resort, they are simply a training tool. I'm guessing Eurosport doesn't read your posts on the PDB?????
Yoshy,
You are spot on. Well said and a very good explanation.
LavK9,
You made a good point about the correct use of the collar.
A dog should wear the collar for a couple of weeks before ever getting a correction from it when introducing the collar. Next, the corrections are paired with the normal training collar corrections on a low level at first. You absolutely should use the E collar in conjunction with a prong or other collar and leash corrections initially. The collar needs to be placed on the dog a couple of hours before training and left on for a couple of hours after training, this helps with the dog becoming "collar smart".
When you understand the nuances and subtleties of properly using an E collar it can be used as a positive motivation tool and not only for corrections. It can be used in tracking to move a dog along and cause it to focus on the task with out stressing a dog for example. I was given this analogy once and I think it's perfect: When little Johnny acts up in class the teacher walks by and puts her hand on Johnny's shoulder and calmly says "Johnny you need to concentrate." That is exactly how the E collar can be used in tracking for example; a gentle reminder to keep focused. My E collar a Tritronics has a buzzer feature. My dog is trained to recall when he hears the buzzer. I can send my dog into a building for a search and recall him by "buzzing." This way I don't have to call him and give my position away, it is a very tactical use of the collar.
My dog is very well trained, however, when I go to work the E collar goes on. To say that a dog is not trained if it needs an E collar is simply not true, IMO. That would mean a trained dog would never need a leash or collar once it is "trained." IMO, dogs are never fully trained they always need work to keep them sharp and correct.
JMO,
Jim
by Slamdunc on 22 January 2010 - 00:01
Clint,
Actually, I have enjoyed your questions. I think you have started a couple of good threads and have gotten some good discussions and some good answers. Don't be discouraged and keep the topics coming, I'm sure there are many other people with the same questions but are reluctant to ask.
Jim
Actually, I have enjoyed your questions. I think you have started a couple of good threads and have gotten some good discussions and some good answers. Don't be discouraged and keep the topics coming, I'm sure there are many other people with the same questions but are reluctant to ask.
Jim
by Two Moons on 22 January 2010 - 00:01
You are not an idiot Clint,
Sorry you felt I was calling you one.
What I said was from the information you have provided you don't sound like you really know what your getting yourself and your family into, much less the dog.
This I still believe.
You want more knowledge, you want to educate yourself, excellent.
What are you doing now to prepare this pup for the purpose you have in mind ?
Have you considered the liabilities of a (personal protection dog) concerning your family and the general public?
In the end what do you expect from your trained personal protection dog?
What you expect has much to do with how you train.
Mistakes can be costly to both you and your dog.
Sorry you felt I was calling you one.
What I said was from the information you have provided you don't sound like you really know what your getting yourself and your family into, much less the dog.
This I still believe.
You want more knowledge, you want to educate yourself, excellent.
What are you doing now to prepare this pup for the purpose you have in mind ?
Have you considered the liabilities of a (personal protection dog) concerning your family and the general public?
In the end what do you expect from your trained personal protection dog?
What you expect has much to do with how you train.
Mistakes can be costly to both you and your dog.
by Clint Gatlin on 22 January 2010 - 02:01
What are you doing now to prepare this pup for the purpose you have in mind ?
Im currently just socializing the pup, playing tug with him, house training, getting him familiar with being in his crate and outside in the kennel....and goin through alot of bandaids....ha
Have you considered the liabilities of a (personal protection dog) concerning your family and the general public?
Yes, I have thats why I want the best training for him I can get. I dont look at a personal protection dog as a liability if it has the proper training...
In the end what do you expect from your trained personal protection dog
I want him to be civil but have the ability to turn on and off when he is given the command ...Im not wanting a loose cannon that bites everyone he meets...he should only bite when he is told to do so
...That is what im looking for
Thanks for the advise
by Two Moons on 22 January 2010 - 05:01
Your welcome but that wasn't really advice.
You sound like your squared away and know what you want.
Laws about liability have seen some changes and you should check into something like that at your state or local level to be sure of those laws.
Training is the key, but some dog's don't have it in them, remember that.
There are tests, hurdles to overcome and not every dog passes.
Then what?
For now encourage him and let him win only when he puts forth that little extra bit of effort, encourage that.
I can still tell my dog no and he better be looking me in the eye when I do. Your in charge.
Be patient, don't rush.
I believe in socializing but not a lot until the pup is old enough to have all it's shots.
I believe in bonding even more, you and your family, he must adopt you as his.
I would trust a dog that loved me over a dog trained with a shock collar every time.
They have their purpose and its very limited in my opinion, also far too easy to abuse.
But thats all for later, right now let him be a pup, mind the scars.
Your pup is young, you have time, make sure you have a close look at any trainers you run into, unless you know someone yourself.
All trainers are not equal.
You sound like your squared away and know what you want.
Laws about liability have seen some changes and you should check into something like that at your state or local level to be sure of those laws.
Training is the key, but some dog's don't have it in them, remember that.
There are tests, hurdles to overcome and not every dog passes.
Then what?
For now encourage him and let him win only when he puts forth that little extra bit of effort, encourage that.
I can still tell my dog no and he better be looking me in the eye when I do. Your in charge.
Be patient, don't rush.
I believe in socializing but not a lot until the pup is old enough to have all it's shots.
I believe in bonding even more, you and your family, he must adopt you as his.
I would trust a dog that loved me over a dog trained with a shock collar every time.
They have their purpose and its very limited in my opinion, also far too easy to abuse.
But thats all for later, right now let him be a pup, mind the scars.
Your pup is young, you have time, make sure you have a close look at any trainers you run into, unless you know someone yourself.
All trainers are not equal.
by steve1 on 22 January 2010 - 10:01
What sort of place do you live in to need a personal protection dog in the first place thats what miffs me
I guess everwhere is different ,over here we do not need a Dog to protect us it is the other way round with me I protect my Dog, and unless someone is pointing a Gun at my head to do me or the Dog harm then they are in for a lot of trouble
Never had the need to train a Dog to protect me in 60 years, but i guess some folk in the USA feel differently they think they need protecting i guess, I thought that was a Job for Slamdunc and his buddies
The only thing my Dogs do is to warn me of anyone coming onto the property i do not expect them to protect me, akthough i am not saying they would not try
Steve1
I guess everwhere is different ,over here we do not need a Dog to protect us it is the other way round with me I protect my Dog, and unless someone is pointing a Gun at my head to do me or the Dog harm then they are in for a lot of trouble
Never had the need to train a Dog to protect me in 60 years, but i guess some folk in the USA feel differently they think they need protecting i guess, I thought that was a Job for Slamdunc and his buddies
The only thing my Dogs do is to warn me of anyone coming onto the property i do not expect them to protect me, akthough i am not saying they would not try
Steve1
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