Is this a reasonable price for this bitch?

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by Prager on 12 December 2009 - 23:12

First : I am against breeding of show dogs.
second: Is there a pedigree on this dog?
Value of the dog is NOT or should NOT be determined by titles.

Value of the dog can not be determined without seeing the pedigree and the thorough knowledge of the dogs on the pedigree and the dog itself. Titiles will help but not much. I often breed police dogs or dogs for police type progeny and can not care less for titles. Titles have orientation value, but they are not panacea. Value of the dog is in the dog itself and quality of the dogs on the pedigree, pedigree which nobody has seen. Not in it's titles. I have seen very many dogs with titles and I would not breed to them if you pay me. That includes many Bundessiegers or highly rated show dogs. Usually because the hips are mediocre at best in their pedigrees because they are bred for performance within first 4 to 5 years max . Also longevity is often poor. However this dog's pedigree has OFA good to excellent. What about if the dogs on the pedigree are S&R dogs and police dogs and hearding dogs.?!

Someone says arrogantly; "...who cares about OFA?" OFA is rating of hips which is superior to SV since the "a" Normal means only none dysplastic. Where OFA grades these "a" normal non dysplastic dogs as "excellent" , "good" and "fair" and OFA is done at 2 years where SV is done earlier. Thus SV is inferior system to OFA.

The value of this female is in her workability or show ability and workability or show ability of the dogs on her pedigree. Only way to know this is to know  these dogs personally. Or know someone who does and is willing to advise. That is if you want to breed work dogs. However breeding of US show lines is another negative in my book and I WOULD LIKE TO SWAY THIS PERSON FROM DOING IT AT ALL.
Someone said also that the pups from titled parents are worth more. That is true. But quality of a dog is more important than the profit they bring if it is based only on how many titles are there in the pedigre! I know many breeders who produce excellent dogs and they are not titled. And I say it with respect even so these people are my competition.
The truth is that this dog is most likely not the dog to start breeding program with. However, who knows for sure?
PhoenixRising
needs guidance and that is quite obvious.
PragerHans

by clifford on 13 December 2009 - 01:12

temar can you find me that dog sch 1 kk lbz 2 years old for 3000

i will give you 500 dollar

thanks

by gucci on 13 December 2009 - 01:12

I was the owner of Triumphs Gucci, I have no 4rh. generation dogs as of yet, Who is the breeder of this dog, Is the dog Diego Vom Bullinger in the pedigree, and why would you ask these questions not being willing to post the pedigree? Diego was a very good dog.

by VonIsengard on 13 December 2009 - 03:12

Pigment? Who cares?! What can she do? A dog with no working qualifications on the mother's side is a PET, and NOT worth three thousand dollars. Clifford- it does NOT cost $3k to raise a dog to two years of age if a dog is sitting around doing nothing. How much do you think she eats? Maybe if the dog has all training started, BH, ready for SchH1, PSA, brevet, something, maybe the dog is worth more. Letting a dog sit around and do nothing is NOT work and in my opinion is worth very little. I am assuming the dog has little or no real training because the OP did not say so.

by gucci on 13 December 2009 - 04:12

KCzaja: you are so right, pigment does not make the dog, This all makes me wonder if one of the lines was an American bred lines Shepherd being on one side "pet quality dogs" And I agree, she is not worth 3,000. Will be interesting if she reveals who the "Pet" dogs are out of.

by Prager on 13 December 2009 - 04:12

KCzaja
I basicaly agree with your last post. However keep in mind that lost of pigment is the first sign of degeneration of the line.

Prager Hans

by MaggieMae on 13 December 2009 - 04:12

The cost of Orijen/Gr. Beef/Canned Meat/Salmon Oil/Treats/Bully Sticks/Toys/Collars/Leashes/Interceptor/Advantage Plus/Vet Bills/shots can easily cost $3,000 or more plus the initial cost for X-large Crate & X-large Dog House

by Prager on 13 December 2009 - 04:12

Dog is worth what anybody is willing to pay for it.
Prager Hans

by danbee on 13 December 2009 - 04:12

Even if you put "something of a title" on her, it still doesn't change the fact that nothing else on the dam's side is titled. You won't be breeding to the SV standard and the pups still won't be worth much. Yes, I agree that titles don't always mean a lot about working ability but that are at least a minimum standard. If you were talking about serious working dogs (police, etc) who may be worked but not titled that's a little different but that doesn't sound like what the OP is talking about. It sounds like someone w/a backyard pet female decided "gee, if I breed her to one of those fancy dogs I can sell the pups for a lot of money."

And to Clifford, the price of the dog is not based on how much it costs to raise them. Prices are based on market forces and what comparable dogs are selling for. I can buy a pink-papered, V rated, KKL1 3 yr old female for $4K. 3K for a pet is not an appropriate price. I'm also a Realtor and you remind me of the people who say "but I bought my house for $200,000 3 yrs ago & I did $40,000 in upgrades & I'll owe you a $10,000 commission so I have to sell it for at least $250K. Umm, no. In today's market your house is worth less than you paid for it 3 yrs ago. It doesn't matter how much you put into it, or how much it cost to raise the dog, it's still only worth a certain amount.

by windwalker18 on 13 December 2009 - 05:12

We've all seen some very nice quality, excellent pedigree and titled bitches offered on the site for not much more than this person is asking for a blank page. Might be cheaper at the moment, but spending a bit more for quality on BOTH sides of the pedigree, hips and some kind of a rating (conformation or working or both) will save you much in the long run.

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