Want to see a real GSD? - Page 2

Phil is right, he is being an ass about it, but he is right. The dog looks like a strong dog and I would guess the dog would make a good cop dog coming from the KNPV but in ring sports, french/mondioring/NVBK, the dog would be a very poorly trained dog. With the work the dog shows on the video the dog would most likely fail in any type of ring trial.

If Suttle has the dog then the stud fees will be between very expensive.

There is more to picking a good stud to breed with then a video and some ring work... But all the same looks like a nice dog... I would not make a judgement on 1 video or 1 pick still nice video as is the pick of the leg bite from the Mali... 

Phil:

I would like to see some video of your dog working if you would.   

The dog hit him like a ton of bricks.  His lack of bite or enthusiasm may be due to the helper shutting down like he did.  It may have confused the dog.  I'd like to see him on a helper who isn't about to collapse.  This poor guy was obviously in a lot of pain and the dog didn't get a good showing because of it. 
Deb

The photo above is my dog.  He was the 2006 NARA FRII Cup Winner, 2007 CZ Selectif Champion, 2007 Vice Cup Winner, 2007 Vice National Champion and put up the highest FRII score that year 292.3 while winning the New England Ring Club fall trial.  None of his trials that year were on a home field.  In fact, in 2006, he flew over from France 3 days before the Championship, and was bred twice (once the morning of the trial) to one of my A'Tim daughters.  Trial morning we lost our ride to the event and he had to travel 1 1/2 hrs. loose in the back of a pickup truck with the tonneau cover down, along with tools and a crate that was broken down and sliding around.  He sat in the crate under a tree until it was his turn.  He beat the nearest competition by 20+ pts.

Phil-  LOL, great story, that is quite the adventure.  What a dog  
Not my breed or my sport but I sure do appreciate someone having those kinds of accomplishments under less then ideal conditions.

Thank you.  I can appreciate your opinion on the different breeds/sports.  We all seem to velcro ourselves to a particular breed for one reason or another but a good dog is a good dog no matter what the discipline.  Each sport has exercises that test the dogs in different ways, each has their reasons.  French Ring is interesting in that all exercises are performed without  leash or collar with the lone exception being the "Heel on Leash".  I still say that one of the most difficult things to do in the protection sports is "V" all three Schutzhund phases at a National event.

Well this thread took an interesting twist.....

Interesting in that a few Mal guys would pop up here an say questionable things about a Mal X Dutch shepherd breeder who just imported a top quality GSD? I think jealousy is rearing it's ugly head.

Couple of points.....

1) Anyone who can not see the intesity and quality in this dog is smoking something. Anyone who has worked or even really seen KNPV dogs knows there isn't one that targets or bites the chest area. Inside arm and leg bites only. I have worked 100's of KNPV trained dogs. These are the only two places they target.

2) Of course this dog would be easily esquived if worked in ring sport. The training is completley different. Same would be said for any Sch trained dog. How is that an indicator of the genetic qualities and courage of a dog?

3) I have said many times there is more to life than a full mouth grip. I am quite confident this dog would show a real nice grip on a sch sleeve or if it had not just run into a brick wall. I don't know too many dogs who would not show some sort of reaction to an impact like that.

4) Mike has advertised the stud fee for this dog @ $1200. Not out of line by any means.

Now Mr. Behun,

I have purposely not engaged you on dog boards because I know of your reputation. I choose to do so here.

I like the way you make the sly little comment insinuating the pedigree on this dog is incorrect. I happen to know part of the pedigree of this dog and he looks, acts, and works, just like the sire. My big problem is how many litters have you had with your Djover Field bitches? You are not going to try and say those pedigree's are correct are you sir? So how are you going to insinuate someone's stud dog has a false pedigree, with no evidence or reason to believe it is false, when you have bred multiple litters from bitches that EVERYONE in the malinios world knows are false?

Con't

Now let's talk about the dog you got from Debbie Skinner. From what I understand that was probably the best dog you ever had in your kennel and you decided to sell him because he was a little to much. More than one person has said you were scared of him.

So you have this outstanding dog, from a bloodline that is almost extinct, than many, many people would have been interested in breeding to and you sell him to a police department. Essentially removing this outstanding dog, from a dying bloodline from the gene pool. Way to go. The dog you are touting here on this thread has not produced anything noteworthy from what I hear in the Malinios world.

So the point is IMHO, this was a chicken shit post. I have seen your antics before on dog boards but sorry dude, had to call you out on this one.

Now as for Mike Suttle and Logan Haus. My experience.

This guy is importing, breeding, and making available as stud to the general population, a quality of dog in quantities that have never been seen before in the US. He gets his breeding program down and he is going to be the premier kennel for working dogs in the US. Hands down. Unfortunatley when people attain this level of sucess, those who don't get jealous. I know all the GSD people here know about that.

I do not know Mike Suttle other than several long in depth telephone conversations. Much of the topic of conversation was bloodlines and pedigrees. What his were and were not. Totally honest. Even took the time to contact people to confirm a pedigree on a dog he was unsure of.

Next, I put a deposit down on a puppy. The pup was due at the same time he was bringing his partner over from Holland for a seminar. I asked him if we could throw the seminar in on the deal. Not only did he agree to that, but he agreed to put me up in his own home for a week for free.

Unfortunatley, the litter produced all Dutch Shepherds and I was looking for a Malinios. He refunded my deposit in a week. I felt bad because in my heart, I knew I should have just taken one of the pups because color should not matter, but I had a plan and a DS just wouldn't work for that plan. I offered for him to just keep the deposit and hold it until he had another litter i may be interested in. He said, "That's OK I'll just send it back and you call me when you see something you are interested in." How many breeders do that anymore. Not many in my experience.  I have been kicking my self ever since fro not buying that pup. Dumb decision on my part.

Con't

The reason I posted this here was hopefully some working line breeder who really wants to improve his lines will consider breeding to this dog. Anyone who doesn't is totally wasting a golden opportunity IMO. What I didn't expect was for a Malinios breeder to jump on here and write a bunch of bullshit about this guy's dog when it is a GSD.

Again, I do not know Mike other than by reputation, one business experience, and several long winded phone calls. What I do know is this guy is bringing in the best dogs in the world, bar none. It is too bad people don't put more effort into trying to get the same level of dogs here, or at least in their own kennel, instead of taking cheap shots at the guy and his dog on a board.

Just trying to show GSD people who may not see much outside of Sch or Sch circles what is out there and available if someone is smart enough to utilize it.  The video speaks for itself.

There's nothing sly about my comment, I'll say it right up front.  I would not purchase a dog from Holland, period.  The age is unknown, the lineage is unknown which for some is fine but in trying to predict what the dog will throw in the future is too much of a crapshoot.  As far as my Dovre Fjeld females go, there's nothing I can do about someone's scruples abroad.  What I can do, is do the DNA and start from there, from this point on the genetics can be tracked.  Since Europe doesn't follow our DNA rules, any time you import a dog you are hoping that the paperwork is in order.  You posted a video bragging about what a tremendous dog this guy is, I just stated fact.  The dog hit him in the groin with his chest, did not bite until after the initial hit and then bit short on the left arm.  On the escape the dog bit short, too high on the leg, could be training but to me, a large part of a dog biting full is genetic.  If you don't mind a dog that grips short, that's your prerogative.  If you didn't want the video critiqued, don't put it on a public forum.  If you didn't want a Malinois guy criticizing the work, don't put it on the "General Topic" forum, put it on the GSD "Only" forum and I wouldn't have said a thing.  You advertise this dog as being a "Real German Shepherd Dog", I say I've seen better.  Why is your opinion right and mine wrong?

As far as my "reputation" goes, my reputation basically says I call 'em like I see 'em.  I know what I see even if others don't.  Being as I don't know who you are, I can't say what you know of me, my dogs or my "reputation", what I can say is you will get my honest opinion whether you like it or not.  Show me another video of the dog gripping full and holding the first grip without resetting and biting not only more full but with more fight on the escapes and I'll be the first one to get on the podium and apologize.  Until that day, you put it out here bragging, and I called it like I saw it.  BTW, there wasn't much opposition put on the dog since the decoy dropped his stick almost instantly.  Couple of yells in the pursuit but no real threat on the dog and on the escape,,,nothing.  Not much of an effort to elude or keep the dog from biting, just here,,take my leg and we'll go for a walk.

 

General Topic, IMO open for everyone.  Want something breed specific, put it on the "GSD Only Forum".