6mo old doesn't do stairs - Page 2

For the food method to work, and it certainly can, make certain she is hungry and I mean HUNGRY. Do not feed her for a day or so and then put the most delicious things you can find to entice her and leave her alone and you go to the bottom. The alternative method you mention of essentially taking her down on leash, very quickly, just so she powers through it is also possible, but depending on you and the dog and how strong and quick and stable you both are, it can result in you falling. That is not a good thing. But, if when I can, I prefer just powering through such fears. 

One of the pups from my recent rare litter came for training this week. He is a beautiful sable male and full of it. His owner is having trouble with him jumping up on her and on other things inappropriately. I asked her what she had done and essentially she was trying to do everything the "sweet" talk way. That does NOT work with a dog like this who is confident and full of piss and vinegar. He was on leash. I told her to take him off and he immediately ran to me and jumped up and I immediately put a knee in his chest hard enough to knock him on his back. That was the last time he jumped on me, on her and on other people. It took one single swift and tough correction and the problem is over, rather than begging him, nagging etc.

So use the same concept IF you can do it without you or the dog falling down. Just put her on a leash, when she is starving hungry, and run her down. Give her a treat at the bottom and make a big deal of it, but short lived. Then run up stairs and repeat. With any of these methods you are likely to be successful in time, but with my method, it will be over very quickly and you can move on to other things. Whatever you do, don't coddle her or talk sweetly to her. Just say "let's go" and GO.

Good luck and be safe!

DON'T FOCUS ON MOTIVATIONAL MODELS -- TOYS, GAMES, FOOD, ETC.  This is a fear-based problem (if you are lucky and it is not a physical problem).  When old behavioral psychologists tried to cure children with fears of animals plying them with ice cream rewards -- they taught them to hate ice cream!  (Throw toys or food rewards and she may start turning them down in everyday life.)

You need to teach the puppy that the stairs are not dangerous, that they are nothing to be afraid of.

Get a harness.  Hook one lead onto her collar, one on her harness, and a third under her belly.  (I hope you are coordinated and reasonably strong.)  GUIDE HER DOWN THE STAIRS AND TALK TO HER GENTLY ALL THE WAY.  Do it a few times, unstrap her, and try it again later. 

I believe this to be the right approach for any fear-based problems.  The most common fear-based problem is teaching some dogs to retrieve in deep water.  I can assure you that you could throw steaks into the lake and a fearful swimmer will let them sink.  To teach these dogs to swim, you hook their leads to their collars and to you.  And you swim a few feet into deep water, swim around, and return -- all calmly.  Then you do it again going out farther.  You keep doing it until the dog gets a feel for the movement and feels safe.

Stairs are a simple version of that problem.

If nothing works, you should get her elbows and hips both checked out.  But don't worry about that for quite some time!

DebiSue - I have had this problem with several dogs brought up in kennels with inadequate socialisation. Notwithstanding the fear psychosis periods, lack of rear-end consciousness and other scientific theories, I have found that by sitting on the stairs and slowly coaxing the pup or young dog with small treats (I don't know why, but I have found that small bits of hard boiled eggs work very well for this, even though there may be other treats the dog likes!) and slowly shifting yourself up and down one step at a time, the problem can be sorted out in a week or less. I don't use a leash and start when there is no disturbance or anyone else around, the dog is somewhat hungry and do it several times a day for just 3-4 times per session. Try it - it's always worked wonders for me, and the problem pups have grown up to be bold and stable without any failures so far.

Why on earth are you concerned about this?  Your pup is still very young...........let her develop  at her own pace or you run  the risk of transmitting your anxieties to her. Jayne 241 above is correct. Going up stairs is not good for developing pups.Your girl may have latent pano,lots of young GSD's get it and should it ever manifest itself then her symptoms will be all the much worse. Let's hope she doesn't ever show signs of it ,but you will kick yourself later if she does! Believe me...she will take to the stairs when she is good and ready, don't worry.

Hello Keef,

It's tornado season here in kansas is why I'm so concerned.  I would like to take my time (which I have for about a month now) but I'm more concerned about her being forced down the stairs during a storm.  Right now she is aware of thunder as we have had severe weather already.  She does not fear it and I don't want her to develop a fear of it because it's coupled with a mad dash to the basement.  She will not be going up and down these stairs on a regular basis so I am not afraid of her hurting herself.  I just want her to be confident enough to manuver them if and when the time comes. 

Hello Hodie!

I was hoping you would chime in.  Your method is really more my style so I think this afternoon she may just get the bum's rush down the stairs.  We plan on using a leash around her tummy in the suitcase manner to support her if necessary.  I will lead with a separate leash and my husband will support her as needed.  This way there won't be much of a chance for her to do anything but go.  She trusts us and really wants to please but she definately needs a little more incentive than just food.  Once we get her headed down I'm sure she will take the initiative and follow through on her own.  We shall see!

I will update and let everyone know how it works out.

Thanks again to all of you for your comments and suggestions.  They are much appreciated.

Deb 

 Hi Deb,

You may end up with some more tornados today or tomorrow with this system that is just leaving us. It is a miserable cold and wet day, but we need the moisture, so I am happy to take it.

Just make the entire thing positive with lots of praise when you go down and then turn right around and do it two or three more times again. Then stop and try it again later after some relaxation. Your dog sounds like she has a good temperament, so it will likely be better very quickly. Then you might later be complaining that she is making you crazy going up and down stairs.

As for worrying about latent pano and stairs, I would not concern myself with it. A dog either will have pano or won't. It has nothing to do with stairs and while I don't jump my dogs to or from really high heights while young, or do a lot of running with them, if left to their own devices they would be running and jumping around and climbing up rocks etc. Stairs aren't going to make any difference in a dog who is otherwise healthy. IF stairs did hurt, we would see many, many more dogs with HD than we do because so many houses have stairs somewhere.

Take care and watch the sky and be careful. Do you have a storm cellar? Where in KS are you?

Happy Easter.

Hi Hodie,

As usual, thanks again for your words of encouragement.  We always seem to be watching the sky around here.  We don't have a storm cellar but we have a full basement under the house.  We live just outside of Wichita. 

We haven't officially joined the Air Capital Schutzhund Club yet but we have made friends with several members.  We recently attended a seminar by Russ Osburn from Pittsburg, Ks. and thoroughly enjoyed it.  They will be having their annual trial October 17 & 18 under Judge USA Mark Przbylski.  Trial degree and titles offered on Saturday, Oct. 17 - BH, SchH 1-3, TR1 and OB1.  They will be doing Helper Certification on Sunday, Oct. 18.  It is a small club but the president Ila Schmitt has done it all.  You can find them on the web if you are not familiar with them. 

Oh and by the way...TA DAH!!!!  Echo has mastered the stairs. 

We just double teamed her and with each of us holding a leash we just went down the stairs and she had no choice but to follow.  We went slow and easy and she vocalized all the way down.  But once she was on the basement floor, forget the treat, look at all the cool stuff down here!  She ran from room to room exploring it all.  We just sat down and enjoyed the show.  Once she was done exploring she was at the stairs looking up so we got up and coaxed her back up.  She still vocalized some but got the hang of it pretty quickly and accepted a treat at the top.  Then we went back down and she ended up getting there first and Oh So Proud!  I took the leash off and my husband Paul went up the stairs solo.  I told her to go upstairs and though it wasn't pretty she did it all on her own.  Then she came down to me all my herself, again not pretty, a little hesitant but all on her own.  She is one proud puppy!  I'm afraid you are right, Hodie.  She will be going up and down them and driving me crazy before long.  She has gone to the top of the stairs several times since, just to peer down them.  We discourage her from making them her new playground but the fear is gone.  We will repeat this tomorrow and again for a few days to make sure she has the hang of it. 

Glad we got through it!  Thanks again to you and everyone.
Deb 

 Hi Deb,

GREAT NEWS on the stair issue. Sometimes just doing stuff instead of namby pambing (is that a phrase?) makes all the difference in the world. Essentially the principle is not to give in, in any way, to a dog who is acting uncomfortable. Just do it!!! So this is good and yes, soon you will hate yourself for teaching her this.

I know of the Air Capital group since we are in the same region. I am sure they are a nice group. So get involved and start learning and having fun. There is nothing better to get you started than to have the opportunity to see a trial and what all it entails. But getting ready for that BH even will take some time. I am sure the club members will give you good guidance, but if you need help, I am just a state away and can also help you in some situations via email.

Good luck and take good care!!

I would try the bullet test.   If it survives, then you have one hell of a dog.  If it does not, then the stairs are solved.

Just thought I would let you kinow we had to purchase a baby-gate for the stairs. 
Echo now thinks they are the best place to be and goes up and down them by herself now.  Since we have too many things down there for her to get into, it's just easier to block her access.  She gets very excited when she sees a laundry basket as she knows the laundry room is downstairs and she always wants to help with the laundry now.  Our old girl sounded like a train rumbling up and down on the stairs...Echo is silent.  You look around and she's gone, you can bet she went down to the basement.  Weather is supposed to turn ugly soon so I am glad we got this behind us.   

 Deb