training advice? - Page 2

and make sure they  know the displeasure is coming from you, and that YOU are the one saying their reaction to other dogs is unacceptable.  Often times people will put on prong collars and drag their dog around and yell at it, but the dog isn't paying any attention to the handler, just the other dog.  Then what you create is a a more unpleasant feeling every time they see another dog which only escalates their behavior. 

Get in between the other dog and yours if you have to, but let it be known that you will not tolerate that crap.  Lots of people will tell you that correcting your dog for being a shit head around other dogs will only make it worse.  That's a bunch of bull. (that stuff happens when you do like I described above and the dog isn't given a clear understanding, all they know is they see a dog,  and they get more unpleasant feelings from the collar.   Let 'em know you aren't happy and that it must stop, NOW and it will.

That is what I do when put in a situation where the dog reacts, but once I know they act like that I make it a point to control the situation the best I can other times.  If I know a pup is going to go off when I get within 20 feet of other dogs, I go to 25-30 feet away and reward for eye contact with me or play with them and gradually move closer.  Doing stuff like that will show them that other dogs are just there and when they want the good stuff, you have it, toys treats, attention etc.  

I like to attack the problem from both ends.

I agree with Shelley and others about not tolerating the barking and carrying on. In  a few more months, you can put the pup with a safe dog and let them play, under supervision and that too will help. Forget the obedience training for now and just socialize. There is plenty of time for formal obedience and for now it should all be fun and preparation for later.

That being said, it does not help that you had a serious fight with two of your males. That, in itself, says a lot to me. There is no reason for that to happen if they are properly segregated. My males, all 9 of them, run together, but they know it is SERIOUS punishment if they posture or even think about being a butthead. It is very, very rare that I have an incident and they have been short lived and the two incidents occurred when others were in or near the exercise yard and the dogs were too excited without restraint from my presence and had no respect for the people in the area. The same is true with my females. When females are in heat, they are segregated from the males and I stay right with them as well when they are outside together. I am always careful to not give any dog attention over the others when they are together, and do not play with them together, and certainly they are not fed together. 

So find ways to creatively engage the younger one without too much discipline that they then assign to being around another dog. That too can often make things much worse.
Good luck.

i'm not asking about my males behaviour,  their fight has a known cause and has been sorted( and they aren't shepherds, one is a JRT and the other a heinz large breed(rescue)very well trained and behaved i might add, except for this one occasion) 

 what i wanted to know is if their fight mght have influenced my girls behaviour at all...??

thankyou all for the advice, i have been trying to give her sharp corrections and a firm NO but this is not working, i will not tolerate that kind of behaviour either i am very firm with my dogs but i will not stoop to physical punishment. Its very hard to keep her away from distractions as unfortunately we currently live on an estate, she is perfectly well-behaved at home and accepts other dogs into the house with just a quick woof a sniff and then she is fine.  So could it be that she is being protective of me when out?? i can see her posturing before she starts but even trying to distract her then is very hard, she will pay constant attention to me on walks unless she sees another dog, she used to be fine, not a problem could just walk past. She's never had a bad experience with another dog. I'm trying to find the cause for the behaviour as it will give me a better idea how to attack the problem. I'm not completely stupid i do know about behaviour and training, its just i can't pinpoint a reason for this behaviour. I maybe a newbie to this site but i'm not a newbie to dogs i've had them my entire life, i've actively done a canine behaviour course, studied different types of training techniques. she seems fixated on the dogs even after we have walked away from them as if she expects them to come walking round the corner...I'm trying to work out if its a fear reaction  becuase if it is giving her sharp corrections might make her worse,  i can't even tell if she is being aggressive or just gobby? I've never had a dog be like this at this age so i wnat to sort it as quickly as possible as nicely as possible.

Violet,
Everything influences her behavior, everydays a learning day.
The why of it could be a variety of things, its very complex.
If you train correctly in my opinion there will be no distraction too great to break your dogs concentration, and if it does, thats another training oppertunity.  
And since you are no stranger to dogs you already know two males and a bitch in heat will have its own set of problems.
Its also another distraction to use and deal with.  
I'm not sure what you mean by physical punishment.
How dogs react to other dogs?    If you ever fully understand all the different reasons please share them with me.
There are always the obvious reasons, but there are also many so complex that its not worth trying to figure out. 
Dogs have complex personalities that follow no set rules.
Obedience is ignoring distractions.   It depends on how you train.
Moons.

hi twomoons, i understand everyday is a learning day, i've been worrying myself so much about what caused it in the first place i'm getting myself really worked up worrying i could end up with an aggressive dog. I've dealt with both my boys while having an in season bitch in my house, as we have fostered before and unfortunately before the bitch was due to be speyed she had her first season. Our eldest dog the JRT paid no attention to her at all whatsoever, and our intact male( at the time...soon to be castrated) was kept seperated from her but wasn't really interested either! i'm not too worried about that as i've dealth with it all before and managed fine..i found it a challenge!!

I'm just going to carry on trying to get her to keep her focus on me and work with distractions, she quite likes squeaky toys so maybe i could use this to keep her attention away from other dogs, and if she ignores them let her have a play??I've just read so much i'm worried about trying the wrong technique and getting completely opposite results.

I apologise if i seemed a bit narked in my last post, i'm fed up of people assuming i don't know about dogs. I think thats what kills me most, i know what i'm doing and yet this issue still pops up...lol i often doubt whether the things i'm doing are right, but i've fostered four dogs and taken on a rescue in the last year and all have gone from being really difficult handfuls to lovely well socialised and obedient dogs! maybe i just need some confirmation what i'm doing is right??

continuing with socialization and just working really hard to keep her mind off other dogs and praise her when she ignore them, she's been like this a couple of weeks so i don't want a habit developing, it doesn't help when most people round here either tut and assume your dog is aggressive when your obviously trying to train it or they just let their out of control dogs run up to yours, when this happens i usually see the dog coming and stand in its way and give it 'the look' which sends it back to where it came from lol  I just don't want to spoil a good dog! i'll see how she gets on at her training class this week, i just wish there was another close by i could get to as i don't drive.

One thing you might try is to set up different situations with someone else to help and work on this independant from the rest of your training. 
If the dog did have some natural aggression towards other dogs you can have some control over the dog but you can't really change what the dog feels inside, its like making a kid eat his spinach, they may eat it but they will never come to like it.
Most important is just to teach obedience and have some control and understand you know your dog better than anyone else so you'll just have to watch the signs and figure it out as best you can.
I think you'll do fine, it just takes time.

You will not stoop to physical punishment? Honey that's the ONLY way your going to get success and a 4 month old pup is much easier to manhandle than a 4 yr old agro bitch! Dog treats and a soft no no, isn't going to cut it. No one is saying kick your dog in the ribs but you must do something to get her FULL attention. I don't screw around with aggression or preying out on anything, depending on the situation, I might lift my pup clear off the ground by it's scruff and look it strait in the face with a stern NO! If it gives in, set it back down, heel off and tell her good girl. If it keeps looking for the other dog or struggling, I'll keep holding her up until she submits. It's better to stop this kinda stuff in one swoop than over and over the dog is succeeing in this type of behaviour because of your failed attempts to softly try to fix it. If what your doing isn't stopping the dog, keep stepping it up (in the same situation) until she does stop, even if your method seems cruel for your taste. 5 seconds of harshness may be all your dog needs to save it's life from euth or kenneled for life down the road, when you have let her be an unruley turd for fear of putting the smack down.

Let's not forget, dogs are dogs and have to do as we say or life doesn't go well for them. Nip this in the bud now before you can't handle this dog and you don't even like her anymore.

won't "stoop" to physical corrections?  What is that supposed to mean?

she isn't protecting you, she's 17 weeks old, she's scared or being a butthead, without seeing it I can't tell you. 

if you don't want to use any corrections that is your choice and your hesitancy might make them uneffective anyway.  nagging a dog while they're locked onto another dog is a sure way to make it worse.  But that's only because it isn't being done correctly, not because the corrections are bad, but I'll move on.

if all you're going to do is use distractions and rewards, you better make yourself damn interesting.  if you can't get your dog interested then you are too close.  Don't get the close to other dogs anymore until you can keep her attention almost 100% and you can draw her attention every time by asking for it.  Then you can be closer.

if you keep getting closer to dogs and she reacts and barks and acts like a fool and you walk away you're reinforcing the behavior.  She acts like a fool, and the dog that is making her nervous gets further away.  A time or two isn't going to make a huge deal, but if that is your only mode of managing a situations it will certainly make it worse as well.  That's one thing people telling you to never use corrections for stuff like this won't tell you for a simple reason.  it doesn't fit their agenda.

Don't get hung up on how or why it started, it doesn't matter much anymore, just set how you're going to go about fixing it and be consistent and do it.

 IF she gets along with others dogs..than it is not a dog-agression issue..more of a fear phase IMO