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by animules on 17 March 2009 - 00:03
Les has to be fearless to keep all of us around! LOL
by Mystere on 17 March 2009 - 00:03
...and yet, he survives!!! LOL
Now, if we can pull off sending a few teams to the DVG AND USA Nationals this year... :-)
by Bob McKown on 17 March 2009 - 01:03
Raymond:
If you want to find out how confident or over bearing your T.D. is just go to a few places other then your club and train on occasion you will find out who is confident and who is a nerve back right off the bat that was my down fall with my last 2 clubs... so I ,ve been clubbed enough for a while...hahaha. Good luck with your search.
If you want to find out how confident or over bearing your T.D. is just go to a few places other then your club and train on occasion you will find out who is confident and who is a nerve back right off the bat that was my down fall with my last 2 clubs... so I ,ve been clubbed enough for a while...hahaha. Good luck with your search.
by steve1 on 17 March 2009 - 12:03
Your System is strange over in the USA to say the least, and it does not impress,
Here in Belgium no Dog would be turned away and even if it was not so good at Protection, and that is the only phase that can be a bit iffy on some dogs, Obed is up to the handler to get that right so that phase cannot come into and evaluation of Raymonds Dog
Now should it be very aggressive towards other dogs and likely to disrrupt the whole Training and other dogs and people i can understand, but not if the Dog lacks that bit on protection that can be developed and it can be bought on sometimes it cannot
But you do not turn people away like Raymond who is willing to work at it, If his dog does not turn out to be great then so what
The Sport on the whole has few great Dogs anywhere, they do not grow on trees
You should make welcome anyone who shows a lot of interest in the sport not the way this club works, for me it is a second rate club anyway for doing such a thing, It would not happen over here thats for sure
And Let us say Raymond gets another Dog better than the one he has now, that club will not get the benifit of such a dog because they were stupid stuck up jerks who on the whole know nothing of what the sport is truly about, they lack substance thats for sure
Raymond You are not missing anything at that club, in fact they are doing you a big favour, try to find a proper Schutzund Club with the right attitude not only towards training dogs but taking on board the people as well
Good Luck
Steve
Here in Belgium no Dog would be turned away and even if it was not so good at Protection, and that is the only phase that can be a bit iffy on some dogs, Obed is up to the handler to get that right so that phase cannot come into and evaluation of Raymonds Dog
Now should it be very aggressive towards other dogs and likely to disrrupt the whole Training and other dogs and people i can understand, but not if the Dog lacks that bit on protection that can be developed and it can be bought on sometimes it cannot
But you do not turn people away like Raymond who is willing to work at it, If his dog does not turn out to be great then so what
The Sport on the whole has few great Dogs anywhere, they do not grow on trees
You should make welcome anyone who shows a lot of interest in the sport not the way this club works, for me it is a second rate club anyway for doing such a thing, It would not happen over here thats for sure
And Let us say Raymond gets another Dog better than the one he has now, that club will not get the benifit of such a dog because they were stupid stuck up jerks who on the whole know nothing of what the sport is truly about, they lack substance thats for sure
Raymond You are not missing anything at that club, in fact they are doing you a big favour, try to find a proper Schutzund Club with the right attitude not only towards training dogs but taking on board the people as well
Good Luck
Steve
by steve1 on 17 March 2009 - 13:03
We train outdoors three times a week, Winter Summer, all the time, Rain Snow or Blow nothing stops it
Only really iced up roads to drive the hour it takes to get there but that happened only twice this last winter
Keen we are
Steve
Only really iced up roads to drive the hour it takes to get there but that happened only twice this last winter
Keen we are
Steve
by ShelleyR on 17 March 2009 - 13:03
We never turn anyone away here if they have serious interest in training. I'll never forget the BH dog from Menlo Park SchH Club that kicked my ass in an FH.
Mystere- Tell Les I said he looks very distinguished with gray hair. :-D
SS
Mystere- Tell Les I said he looks very distinguished with gray hair. :-D
SS
by malshep on 17 March 2009 - 17:03
raymond, I am sorry that Halo did not make schutzhund, my Sabin does not either but he is a tracking fool. He is just a oversized male that no one wanted, people did not like big black german shepherd . He pulls firewood for me during the winter. Just a great dog. We been tracking all winter and this spring. Good luck in finding what you boy will like to do.
Always,
Cee
Always,
Cee
by Mystere on 17 March 2009 - 17:03
Quote: Your System is strange over in the USA to say the least, and it does not impress,
Here
Steve1,
PLEASE understand that it is NOT a "system." What Raymond is talking about is the decision of a specific, individual club. Period. It does not happen that way at ANY club with which I have ever been a member and/or with which I am familiar.
Furthermore, in my experience, it is more often NOT a matter of a dog not being able to cut it, as it is a person that has alienated club members to the extent that they want him/her gone, but don't feel they have actual grounds for expulsion pursuant to an established disciplinary procedure. I am not implying that such is the case with Raymond --I don't even know what state he is in, much less which club he joined.
I know personally of an instance in which a person who came out to check out the club was turned away from a club I was a member of with the explanation that the club did not want pitbulls there. That was not true. The reality was that several members found the person with the pit to be personally offensive, beginning with driving up with the "stars and bars" all over her "monster truck" vehicle. The dog was actually FINE, great temperament and drive. The person went to another schutzhund club in the area and within a short time was wreaking havoc with the club, including instigating physical altercations. They had to put the club through the stress of getting rid of her.
I have never known of a club in the US that told a member not to come back, because the member's dog, in their opinion, could not cut it. I have never heard of it, until Raymond brough it up (assuming Raymond is in the US). As I stated before, the "norm" is to encourage the person to work the dog they have to the best of their and the dog's abilities, perhaps concentrating on tracking or OB, until the person can acquire a dog better suited to the sport.
Here
Steve1,
PLEASE understand that it is NOT a "system." What Raymond is talking about is the decision of a specific, individual club. Period. It does not happen that way at ANY club with which I have ever been a member and/or with which I am familiar.
Furthermore, in my experience, it is more often NOT a matter of a dog not being able to cut it, as it is a person that has alienated club members to the extent that they want him/her gone, but don't feel they have actual grounds for expulsion pursuant to an established disciplinary procedure. I am not implying that such is the case with Raymond --I don't even know what state he is in, much less which club he joined.
I know personally of an instance in which a person who came out to check out the club was turned away from a club I was a member of with the explanation that the club did not want pitbulls there. That was not true. The reality was that several members found the person with the pit to be personally offensive, beginning with driving up with the "stars and bars" all over her "monster truck" vehicle. The dog was actually FINE, great temperament and drive. The person went to another schutzhund club in the area and within a short time was wreaking havoc with the club, including instigating physical altercations. They had to put the club through the stress of getting rid of her.
I have never known of a club in the US that told a member not to come back, because the member's dog, in their opinion, could not cut it. I have never heard of it, until Raymond brough it up (assuming Raymond is in the US). As I stated before, the "norm" is to encourage the person to work the dog they have to the best of their and the dog's abilities, perhaps concentrating on tracking or OB, until the person can acquire a dog better suited to the sport.
by steve1 on 17 March 2009 - 22:03
Mystere
I do not know about that
First we here of a club charging Valuation fees, then Raymond says he was told his dog was not up to the mark,
He did not say it was him as a person the club wanted out, So what do you think someone from another country thinks when two incidents happen within a week, It may be as you say but it still seems strange to me it should happen even once
Steve
I do not know about that
First we here of a club charging Valuation fees, then Raymond says he was told his dog was not up to the mark,
He did not say it was him as a person the club wanted out, So what do you think someone from another country thinks when two incidents happen within a week, It may be as you say but it still seems strange to me it should happen even once
Steve
by Uber Land on 17 March 2009 - 22:03
as with anything, we have good clubs in the US, and shitty clubs. I know in north Texas/southern okl area, we have a few exceptional clubs. Ken White's group, The Dallas group with Randahl Hoadley, and the group who gets together in Whitesboro, some of these groups used to make up 1 larger club called the OGTexoma club, but due to arguements over training location it was split up into smaller training groups.
but there are MANY small groups who also get together and do personal protection ect. and they don't know what the hell they are doing. these people generally get together once or twice a week and let the dogs take bites. nothing else. I've been there first hand to watch how they train, it is mainly thru force the dog to bite, by flanking ect. not the type of training I would put one of my dogs thru. In my opinion these people are creating unstable, dangerous dogs.
Raymond, your dog isn't very old, what a year old? I would work with her on obed. and tracking and give her some time to mature before taking her back out for protection. Do the rag work and drive building at home, maybe have a friend or family member help as you encourage her to chase the rag. Schutzhund is not the end all of dog sports.
but there are MANY small groups who also get together and do personal protection ect. and they don't know what the hell they are doing. these people generally get together once or twice a week and let the dogs take bites. nothing else. I've been there first hand to watch how they train, it is mainly thru force the dog to bite, by flanking ect. not the type of training I would put one of my dogs thru. In my opinion these people are creating unstable, dangerous dogs.
Raymond, your dog isn't very old, what a year old? I would work with her on obed. and tracking and give her some time to mature before taking her back out for protection. Do the rag work and drive building at home, maybe have a friend or family member help as you encourage her to chase the rag. Schutzhund is not the end all of dog sports.
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