blind breeders - Page 2

There are also two sides to every story - if you are hearing stories about a breeder, or about a dog - check out the facts before assuming that the disgruntled owner is really the victim at all.  Check with them (assuming they would tell the truth) and ask what the "blind breeder" has offered them in compensation for the health problems, or temperament, or whatever it is about the dog that is making the owner unhappy.  Perhaps the owner has turned down the offers of replacement puppy or refund given by the breeder.  Perhaps the internet "breeder bashing" isn't the right way to communicate with the breeder.  Perhaps the problems the dog has are not in fact directly genetic - having nothing to do with the sire/dam or breeder in the first place - and instead are problems common to the breed, developed with age, and not passed down genetically through sire/dam.  Are sire and dam healthy at an older age?  Find out before assuming the breeder is breeding unhealthy dogs intentionally.  Health problems developed with age are usually not covered on any contract or guarantee.  Most contracts cover the initial health check done within a week or so of baby puppies going to their new homes - after that, nothing is covered except hips and elbows, testicles and ears.  I don't know of any breeder who guarantees long-term health in their contracts.  A breeder who offered support or refund/replacement on an older dog with developed health problems common to the breed (EPI, SIBO, Pannus, DM, Lumbar-sacrel problems, etc) would be a very rare breeder indeed.

molly
Eichenluft Working German Shepherds
http://workinggermanshepherd.com

Very well said Molly.
Kel

Often it is because the breeder and the customer cannot establish a dialogue due to personality conflicts.  And yes, some breeders are truely "kennel blind" as was said above. And, some customers have unrealistic expectations regardless of what an ethical breeder told them would probably NOT happen. People forget that even a puppy produced by a VA-1 sire and a VA-1 dam may be no better than a GSD puppy from a hobby breeder who is using untitled dogs. The appropriate expression here is "sometimes life is just not fair". That is just the way it is, so deal with it.

Let's take this back to the days when the dog was separated by evolution from wild foxes and wolves. Why does a dam still have so many puppies in a litter? Because in the wild nearly none will survive to reproduce themselves. It is really that simple. People can become overtaken with self-induced illusions and expectations and be very disappointed when their puppy/dog does not meet their expectations. And some feel a need to vent here (or on other messageboards) before they contact the breeder. Why? Maybe in their drama-filled life it fulfills a need to maintain the crown for drama queen or king. Maybe it is just poor manners and social skills - can't say.

A breeder sells a product. A very complex living (nearly sentient in my opinion) product that is not easy to reproduce such as is an automobile, washing machine, etc.. Hence, while some aspects of the outcome can be predicted with some certainty, other aspects cannot be predicted. So what is the customer to do when the product fails to meet expectations? Try to resolve it in a reasonable way if at all possible, or accept the ruling of Fate.

And "blind" breeders? Oh yes, they are out there. I think there are many more "blind" customers but that should be obvious. And as many of us know; we can do the research, make the trips, establish a relationship with good dialogue, and still purchase that dream puppy/dog that may not live to our expectations in spite of an established relationship with the breeder. And what should we do then? Try to work out a good compromise for each party, and remember that "sometimes life is just not fair".

Best Regards,
Bob-O 

Bob-O - OUTSTANDING.

Breeding is a crapshoot and guarantees are are unrealistic in breeding. There is no guarantee in what will come out of a litter. I fully inform customers that I cannot assure you of HD, or any other genetic disease. I feel that with my knowledge of lines and experience in the breed and constantly staying current in the breed I can resonably assure them the puppy will represent what a German Shepherd should be.....but genetics cannot be predicted to a degree to give guarantees. Therefore, I am not defensive if there are issues with a given dog out of my breeding. I have also found that customers that are also breeders are the most opinionated and unrealistic people to sell a dog to. My attitude and policies are very similar to the Germans in that they donot guarantee and are fully aware that breedings produce undesireable recessives that are nobodies fault if you start out with good stock in the first place...JMO

I agree, puppies are a crap shoot, and all you can do is your homework, and then hope for the best. When you take on a puppy, you sign up for the ride. If you want a sure thing, buy an adult...but even an adult can develop health problems and can get injured as they get older. They are living creatures....sh*t happens.

I sure hope I am not one of the so called blind breeders you are reffering to.  I started out with a titled SCH3 import bitch, bred her to a titled import male, good lines, and started my breeding program with her pups.  it took me 5 years of trying, and having nothing but problems until I finally scraped every one of the dogs I had retained from her and basically started over with nothing.  I loved that dog and it was difficult to let her lines go, but I did cause I knew it was better for the breed.

Great post Bob-O. I especially liked this comment : "we can do the research, make the trips, establish a relationship with good dialogue, and still purchase that dream puppy/dog that may not live to our expectations in spite of an established relationship with the breeder." I did all that. I LOVED the person I got my dog from. When I told the breeder of the problems I was told I was imagining things, the vets didn't  know what they were talking about, I was making things up and my personal favorite, the breeder accused me of  "munchausens by proxy". All I guess I really wanted was an admission that maybe the lines aren't perfect. That's all. I've accepted fate - I love my dog with all my heart and soul. She is truly a member of our family. I maybe just wanted a "hey, sorry that happened to you. breeding's a crap shoot" rather than the berating and belitting I received. It is upsetting me because I am being contacted by others who are on the receiving end of it now and all we really are looking for is a "sorry" and support through the health issues. The breeder is also adement that there are no nerve issues. There are several, my dog included, that I know of. My dog's SchH trainer said so - and that trainer is a world known SchH helper so I tend to believe his evaluation. That's all - just admission that all might not be perfect.

I've said this before, but the only way to really start cleaning up the hereditary issues is for the AKC or whatever registry to establish some new guidelines, forcing the owners of the parents of a prospective litter to have a full series of testing done in order to register the future puppies. It should include, HD, ED, Thryroid, EPI, Allergies, Cardiac, CERF, pancreatic insufficiency, etc. Yes, a lot of well-known beautiful, talented dogs would not be able to be bred, but at least we could clean up the health issues. I know something like that would never pass, but I can dream!