To Split or not to Split - Page 2

Good Post Mo from your fellow idiot.  To Reason Bravo on your post. 

I am also somewhat dissapointed that the GSD League could not find someone available to fill in for Graham
in such an important matter. Like Sheila said, it is to be hoped we do not have to wait too long for another date but perhaps the Breed Council should take the bull by the horns and they should call a meeting on Health Issues and invite the KC along with representatives from the Dog Press and then the KC would be made to look bad if the failed to turn up. 

On the subject of Health Screening and KC registration I feel the Breed Council should consider writing a letter to the Secretaries of other Breed Councils to ask them if their breed has ever approached the KC with regard to only registering litters from Health Screened Parents and if they too have been refused. If this is so perhaps we would all be best served by Collectively Approaching the KC as BREEDS UNITED on such important issues such as Health which equally effect us all.
 
Finally, I know the KC keep saying NO to mandatory Health tests on breeding stock because they worry about the loss of revenue from registrations but surely if they made it mandatory, even the puppy farmer and ordinary pet breeder wants to be able to sell their pups as Pedigree dogs with KC registrations, so the majority would put their dogs through the schemes anyway. All the KC would have to decide then is if they would register progeny from every pair of Health Screened parents despite the results of the tests.

Regards
Sue

 

Excellent views and ideas Sue.     Mo

i understand that people become ill its a fact of life but i would have thought that the league's rep was already mandated on what was required via the membership so surely this meeting could have went ahead with the mandates from the league + the bagsd and bc  being present and i take it all 3 are proposing the same thing and minutes would be taken so the league would know what was said on their behalf  or at worst someone could have went as a league substitute.

After reading all the various debates about this proposed split, I wasn't going to get involved but now feel that some clarification is needed. Posts within this thread are misleading when read outside the context of other threads as they give the impresson that it is merely a name change from 'German Shepherd dog (Alsatian)' to 'German Shepherd Dog' that is being sought. There can be no arguement that this is sensible given the internationality of the breed and I wiuld suppoprt this wholeheartedly. BUT this is not the only thing being proposed.

It is being proposed that the breed itself be split in two.

It is being asserted that those breeding a certain 'type' of GSD not suited to current fashions and trends in interpretation of the standard followed by many 'German Type' show people are all 'Alsatianists' and can all go and form their own breed.

I object to this.


- I am a British breeder of German Shepherd Dogs (note the absence of the word Alsatian) of over 10 years
- I have studied the SV breed standard in depth and refer to it constantly (because it is the breed standard from the country of origin)
- I have studied canine genetics and educated myself extensively on the subject of the GSD via literature, video, shows, critiques and respected German judges opinions.
- I am aiming for my dogs to be my own breeding / my own line - I don't just import two dogs, put them together and then say 'look at what a successful breeder I am'. Each generation I am looking to improve on the last.
- I see the UK Kennel Club as a necessary registration step and that is all. It is a huge shame that more pressure can not be brought upon them to insist on mandatory health checks, DNA etc which would only benefit the breeding of dogs.
When I choose a dog for stud, when I consider a bitch for purchase, when I consider a puppy for running on, the following are foremost in my mind:

1  - Does the dog conform to the breed standard?
2  - Is the dog of sound character and temperament?
3  - Is the dog healthy / health checked parents etc?
Unfortunately I have personally found that many dogs, particularly from  German Type' show people fail immediately on point 1. The reason is usually the roached (banana) or hinged topline or problems with hocks. I don't have these problems in my dogs and I don't want them either so what do I do?

I look at the dog not at it's label.

 - If it is a German show type without these ugly faults and if it isn't nervy or shy, if it isn't too line-bred on Ursus, if it isn't over size, then I'm a happy bunny and will purchase / use for stud etc.

 - If it is a German / Belgian, Czech etc working type and if it isn't too snipey of head, too lacking in bone / substance, if it isn't too highly strung with drives off the planet, if it isn't too small, if it isn't too line-bred on Troll or Fero then I'm a happy bunny and will purchase / use for stud etc.

- If it is a dog with mainly English recent parentage (whose owners go to shows where they use the word 'Alsatian) then if it isn't sway-backed, if it hasn't too short a leg. if it is decently pigmented, if it has intelligence then I'm a happy bunny and will purchase / use for stud etc.

Now some of you will throw your hands up in the air in despair at this. Ooooh I am diluting the carefully arranged bloodlines, I am producing a dog which is neither this nor that. . . . .GOOD! 


Continued . . . 

. . . continued

I am breeding a German Shepherd Dog. I am doing this using the widest gene pool available to me and from that gene pool I am selecting the dogs which most closely live up to the breed standard. I am avoiding the problems of bottlenecks on overly popular sires. My dogs are healthy, temperamentally sound, many in working environments, many in family homes. All have beautiful toplines and sound hocks! I get many enquiries about puppies and my waiting list is 2 years long. I never have to advertise. 

The one thing all people who contact me about my dogs have in common is that they all say the following:

 - "Oh my God I never thought I would ever see a German Shepherd with a proper back again"
 - Often with tears in their eyes: "you breed German Shepherds how they should be, how they used to be"
 - "Gosh, their back legs are straight" (hocks, when viewed from behind"

Now then, someone please tell me in this debate WHAT AM I GOING TO DO? Anything that is not a German showline dog you are proposing to label an Alsatian and cast off as a seperate breed. You are about to limit my breeding options, vastly reduce my breeding pool and narrow my bloodlines into more bottle-necks.

What breed would you classify my dogs? Tell me, because I'm sure the general public would recognise  them as German Shepherds over (most of) the (extreme) german show line dogs!


Thank you



 

 I said: current fashions and trends in interpretation of the standard followed by many 'German Type' show people

. . . trends in interpretation of the standard. Where in the standard does it say that the topline must form a hump or that there must be a noticable break in the topline!

I have German bred dogs also - both working and show 'type' and no, the public have no problem recognising them either. I didn't say that recognisable ones didn't exist. Indeed they form part of my breeding! they just have not been selected because a prominent judge has said 'this dog has the best banana back and the most excellent wobblyest hocks I have ever seen"

I have not personally shown often in recent years as I can't seem to get the feeling out of my head that by doing so I am supporting the whole merry-go-round that is distorting and disfiguring this wonderful breed.

Some of my pups do go as pets (as most breeders have pups that do - let's be honest). Many of my dogs have gone into working roles: several are herding sheep, some are Police dogs, one is a specialist assistance dog to a disabled person, some are doing schutzhund, working trials, obedience or agility. My next suitable pup may well be donated to local search and rescue.

So that everyone gets to know about it, I have copied this post to a few relevant sites.   Mo

I am delifghted to tell everyone this morning, that


"The Man From Del-Monte, He Say YEAH"

Seriously, Brian Wootton has agreed to get to Crufts (although wasnt going) and represent us as Press Officer.  We had a long chat, and he is not in favour of splitting the breed - for very good reasons, as good as for the ones in favour of the split (almost ) - so its all a bit of a head-banger, but I also put others points to him, which he was also interested in.  Good Debate... outcome, have a word with him.   He will be at Crufts, he will be by the Breed Council Stand, and I urge you all to tell your friends and others that may be asked any questions - to head them into the direction of Brian.  say to everyone - that - he will only be effective for us, if he is used.  Dont speak with people, and get into hot water, then send them to him, send them right away to "Our Press Officer" - and if you are not sure who is asking questions of you, send em anyway in case.

I Am going to speak with some-one who began this interesting thought - from the Bulldog people, and see how they are going to mann the position, and will be back to you all and to Brian.  Incidentally, and very sadly, Brian feels that as KC Liason Officer, he has been consulted about nothing.  He is more than happy to get involved in debates about various issues, relating particularly to the KC and health and the welfare of the GSD as a breed - but is not being asked to attend various meetings and not being consulted.As a gentleman, he wouldnt dreamo of asking to be there, but is available if necessary in the eyes of others.

How Sad Is That  !!!   Brian has a wealth of experience, is a very eloquent man that you could quite imagine could make an impression at the KC - and is willing to be involved.   "Willing Workers" and all that.

As well as having no pc - and fairly recently a telephone - he doesnt drive, so would appreciate a lift to the event.  Anyone near Wolverhampton?  High Heath Essinton to be precise, that would give our Press Officer a lift to Crufts.

Bless you Brian, you live in another age, but are there when required.

Mo - Mascani.