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by 1doggie2 on 06 February 2009 - 23:02
Jenni78 I like your way of thinking. Raising a dog to think he is "god". Not in my house. I have a pup here who is trying to tell me he has been promoted to "god",
by JON ERIC on 07 February 2009 - 00:02
Maybe,But not necessarily at al.I once bred a hard showline bitch to an extremely gentle oversized male with many DDR lines,and all the male pups were totally out of control at 10 weeks.I ended up giving them all away to individuals who I knew would keep them as property guards,and i followed up on most for 8 or so yrs,and most did their job,but were one person dogs.
by windwalker18 on 07 February 2009 - 02:02
It can be either, or both....
While I was working for a vet this young man brought in an 8 week old Rotti pup. This pup rared up and snarled at all 3 of us when we tried to check his paws, take his temp etc... though both the Vet and I are very mellow easy people and gave him time to get to know us before any kind of work was done. AT 8 WEEKS the pup absolutely exploded... not a fear aggression, but a "how dare you put your frickin hands on me..." aggression. The kid backed off shocked to see this baby act like this and left us to deal with it. I carefully did a roll, placing the pup on his back on the table, restraining him very calmly, no bad language or anger... just lay him over on his back and held him down... it took a while til he subsided... After 2 or 3 go rounds of this... he allowed us to check him over, do 1st shots and such...
I talked to his owner for a good half hour explaining the issue I saw in the pup... and recommending how to proceed with him from here. Like most kids, he didn't appreciate the advice... and went home grumbling to his father, who owned the pup's sire, Peewee. (Pop dog was one of the sweetest Rotti's I've ever known btw) The kid was told to do EXACLY what I had told him about restraint work... obedience @ a young age and such... 6 weeks later the pup came in (late) for his second round of vaccines... Doc and I kind of worried about what a nearly 4 month old powerhouse would be like to handle. But in walked the calmest most polite young dog you could picture.
The remainder of the litter didn't get that early correction and training....and by the time they were a year old most had bitten other people, and had to be euthanized.
What is the bitch's temperment?? If it's good, calm and mellow... then you could take a chance on raising the pup. I'd be conserned about taking it for resale though... If you didn't want to keep the pup, perhaps just ask for the value of or a part of the value of the pup from the litter owner... and walk away... (good reason for getting right or choice of sire on a pup back situation for the future)
While I was working for a vet this young man brought in an 8 week old Rotti pup. This pup rared up and snarled at all 3 of us when we tried to check his paws, take his temp etc... though both the Vet and I are very mellow easy people and gave him time to get to know us before any kind of work was done. AT 8 WEEKS the pup absolutely exploded... not a fear aggression, but a "how dare you put your frickin hands on me..." aggression. The kid backed off shocked to see this baby act like this and left us to deal with it. I carefully did a roll, placing the pup on his back on the table, restraining him very calmly, no bad language or anger... just lay him over on his back and held him down... it took a while til he subsided... After 2 or 3 go rounds of this... he allowed us to check him over, do 1st shots and such...
I talked to his owner for a good half hour explaining the issue I saw in the pup... and recommending how to proceed with him from here. Like most kids, he didn't appreciate the advice... and went home grumbling to his father, who owned the pup's sire, Peewee. (Pop dog was one of the sweetest Rotti's I've ever known btw) The kid was told to do EXACLY what I had told him about restraint work... obedience @ a young age and such... 6 weeks later the pup came in (late) for his second round of vaccines... Doc and I kind of worried about what a nearly 4 month old powerhouse would be like to handle. But in walked the calmest most polite young dog you could picture.
The remainder of the litter didn't get that early correction and training....and by the time they were a year old most had bitten other people, and had to be euthanized.
What is the bitch's temperment?? If it's good, calm and mellow... then you could take a chance on raising the pup. I'd be conserned about taking it for resale though... If you didn't want to keep the pup, perhaps just ask for the value of or a part of the value of the pup from the litter owner... and walk away... (good reason for getting right or choice of sire on a pup back situation for the future)
by jletcher18 on 07 February 2009 - 03:02
i feel that it can be genetic. doesnt help if you factor in poor training or a handler that does not know how to work such a dog.
crok lines i am told are like this. found in his sons, and to a lesser degree grandsons.
what are the bloodlines? this is information that can help breeders (like me) in making breeding choices in the future.
john
crok lines i am told are like this. found in his sons, and to a lesser degree grandsons.
what are the bloodlines? this is information that can help breeders (like me) in making breeding choices in the future.
john
by olskoolgsds on 07 February 2009 - 03:02
I would pretty much agree with kczaja.
There are too many variables to say one way or another, especially without seeing the pup and seeing the Sire. Handler aggression can be the fault of those handling the dog. A strong dominate dog that is going to push his way through life will need an owner that will deal with him properly. I have seen dogs that were not much become masters of the house to weak people that did not know how to handle the dog.
As far as Genetics goes, IMO it is not as much as a dog that is genetically predisposed to be handler aggressive as much as a dog that is a strong alfpha dog that has not learned the pecking order. Either way though, it is still a crap shoot as to the dogs aggression, dominance level that he has inherited from dad. What is the pup like? You should be able to look at the pup and see what his temperament is like. Personally, it is one of the last things I would be conserned about. Not only are the odds in your favor genetically, but you also have the forknowledge on what you will need to do if the dog shows handler aggression.
There are too many variables to say one way or another, especially without seeing the pup and seeing the Sire. Handler aggression can be the fault of those handling the dog. A strong dominate dog that is going to push his way through life will need an owner that will deal with him properly. I have seen dogs that were not much become masters of the house to weak people that did not know how to handle the dog.
As far as Genetics goes, IMO it is not as much as a dog that is genetically predisposed to be handler aggressive as much as a dog that is a strong alfpha dog that has not learned the pecking order. Either way though, it is still a crap shoot as to the dogs aggression, dominance level that he has inherited from dad. What is the pup like? You should be able to look at the pup and see what his temperament is like. Personally, it is one of the last things I would be conserned about. Not only are the odds in your favor genetically, but you also have the forknowledge on what you will need to do if the dog shows handler aggression.
by Orchardhof on 07 February 2009 - 11:02
It can be hereditary. If it was me I'd go to another litter.
Terri
Terri
by steve1 on 07 February 2009 - 12:02
If you have any ill feelings at all about the Sires Tempement and if it will be passed onto the Pups then just say a no thank you to the breeder
Unless you plan to sell it which certainly would be unwise, and not fair anyway unless you tellthe new owner of the ansestry, then i say cut your losses and do not take a Pup at all
Steve
Unless you plan to sell it which certainly would be unwise, and not fair anyway unless you tellthe new owner of the ansestry, then i say cut your losses and do not take a Pup at all
Steve
by aristianM on 07 February 2009 - 12:02
My girl definately got the aggressive streak from her sire. She got it bad! :( Shes love us to death but she wants to tear apart anyone that tries to come near me, my house or her. 
So yeah, it is genetic.
So yeah, it is genetic.
by Jenni78 on 07 February 2009 - 15:02
I didn't realize people were actually unsure that it was genetic. IT IS GENETIC. Having said that, not every dog gets every gene. I would give the benefit of the doubt and say the dog is not crazy, but aggressive and no one knows what to do with an aggressive dog anymore. Which is why we have Golden Retrievers who look like German Shepherds. ARGH. Sorry to sidetrack.
My point is, I would take the puppy, see what he/she's all about, and go from there. If you hate it, and it tries to kill your family while you sleep, send it my way! LOL.
My point is, I would take the puppy, see what he/she's all about, and go from there. If you hate it, and it tries to kill your family while you sleep, send it my way! LOL.
by Abhay on 07 February 2009 - 16:02
Somewhere out there is a man who has the god given ability to become the Hvy Wt Champion of the World. This man will probably live his whole life out in peace and never be exposed to what could bring out that side of himself.
15yrs ago my wife see's an ad in the local paper for a solid black GSD for $50. Her and her friend go purchase the dog. The lady she purchased the dog from explained that the black GSD wasn't a guard dog and was somewhat shy and very gentle.
After we had the dog for about a year he had bonded and been exposed to different stimuli. This shy dog who wasn't a guard dog made a 180 degree change. We never tried to change the dog. He was just there and given the same love and feed all the dogs get. Now this dog was always a manstopper, but had never been allowed to bond and be exposed to stimuli and an environment that would bring out his true nature.
At that time the Pikes Peak Schutzhund Club had an outstanding helper named Jeff. Jeff was in the military and stationed at Ft. Carson. Jeff could back up what I say about the solid black.
What is taking me so long to say, is that there are dogs out there who would eat someone up, but havent been exposed to the incident, or stimuli that will flip the switch that fires the said dog up. Often times, traits in a dog's genetics and that have been predetermined in the womb, will never be seen, if the proper situation to flip the switch never comes around.
15yrs ago my wife see's an ad in the local paper for a solid black GSD for $50. Her and her friend go purchase the dog. The lady she purchased the dog from explained that the black GSD wasn't a guard dog and was somewhat shy and very gentle.
After we had the dog for about a year he had bonded and been exposed to different stimuli. This shy dog who wasn't a guard dog made a 180 degree change. We never tried to change the dog. He was just there and given the same love and feed all the dogs get. Now this dog was always a manstopper, but had never been allowed to bond and be exposed to stimuli and an environment that would bring out his true nature.
At that time the Pikes Peak Schutzhund Club had an outstanding helper named Jeff. Jeff was in the military and stationed at Ft. Carson. Jeff could back up what I say about the solid black.
What is taking me so long to say, is that there are dogs out there who would eat someone up, but havent been exposed to the incident, or stimuli that will flip the switch that fires the said dog up. Often times, traits in a dog's genetics and that have been predetermined in the womb, will never be seen, if the proper situation to flip the switch never comes around.
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