Please help me with my dogs bonding

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by susanandthek9s on 17 January 2009 - 15:01

I agree with Suzanne Clothier, who finds the notion that you have to deprive a dog of interaction with others to insure the dog's interest in you rather disturbing. I have always gone to a lot of trouble to insure that my dogs have a great deal of interaction with other dogs and other people. And guess what? They love me best, and will happily break off a play session to work. And that includes a real-world working dog.

Bring your dog into the house, encourage his relationship with your other dog, take him everywhere with you that you safely can, and go out of your way to make sure he meets a lot of new friends, both canine and human. Yes, this is a lot of trouble, but if you want true bonding instead of sick dependency, it's worth it. You have to earn the bonding that you want.

by chicki on 17 January 2009 - 17:01

    Thanks guys. I would like to clear a few things up. First off I didn't mean to sound that this puppy is only with me when my heeler is also with me. I take him (Jano's is his name) with me every chance I get wherever I go. The heeler never goes anywhere, nor in the vehicle and stays strickly at home. I take Jano's with me at least three times a week to a barn where I ride at. After lessons I take him in the arena and play ball and work (fun) with him. I take him to petsmart every week or two while we're already in town. I also go to the dog club when the weather is decent. I bring him in the house and his is allowed in the sunroom (where I am) and hangs out while I'm on the computer etc. We have 4 little house dogs so I do let him play with them at times, as I want him to be good with them. But mostly I put them in another room while he is in.  I believe we have a decent bond...it's not like he'll follow the heeler instead of me. If the heeler is locked up in kennel or garage he doesn't run there to him or anything like that. It's not that bad is what I'm trying to say. Anyways, from now on the heeler gets put away whenever Jano's is with me. Hopefully when he is older they can be together more. My end goal would be to have him bonded to me but able to be together with the heeler as well.

    Regarding the 7-8 week old bonding frame...I don't think thats true at all. A prime example is my heeler.  He came as a two year old rescue and bonded to me stronger then any dog I've ever had in my entire life. The dog is absolutely intent on me, doesn't stop looking at me, doesn't leave my side, turns himself inside out when I praise or pat him. Which ever door I go in he waits at that door till I come out.   I'm not the one that feeds him (my daughter does), my husband gives him the treats, I don't even play ball with him. So bonding can and does occur sometimes without following the normal steps.
   Another thing is that we have 3 bostons and a frenchie in the house. All the dogs are about 3 years apart and that meant raising a puppy with a older dog or dogs. Although they all play at times together and get along really well...they aren't attached to each other and are totally bonded to us, competing for our attention always. They were together 24/7 and we never had to separate them to have them bond to us.   Anyways, just had to share that.

by VomMarischal on 17 January 2009 - 17:01

All my dogs (all females) live in my house with me; they have a dog door to get out when they feel like it. Each time I add a dog (if one dies, for instance), I allow the two older ones to raise it. By the time the puppy is a few months old, it is demanding my time jealously. I think they do well to be brought up with other dogs. They STILL become possessive of the person, and demand attention. I firmly believe in letting a puppy be a puppy and I've never had one who preferred the other dogs to me. And these are not docile little creatures, either. They are crazy, drivey sport dogs.
--Jackie

by susanandthek9s on 17 January 2009 - 17:01

"Anyways, from now on the heeler gets put away whenever Jano's is with me."

So Jano learns that being with you means that he loses his best buddy? All you will gain from this strategy is a dog that resigns himself to accepting you as second best, since you're all he has. And he may, quite rightly, resent you for taking his friend away from him. This will not be a true bond. If this doesn't make sense to you, I again highly recommend:

http://flyingdogpress.com/hostage.html

Why not engage in happy games and training with both dogs at the same time? When Jano sees the heeler joyfully competing for your attention, he may do likewise.

Also, little bits and pieces of house time are not enough. The strongest bond will develop if he is a house dog, not a kennel dog.

In 25 years of owning dogs, I have never had a bonding problem, and I've had high-drive dogs, problem dogs, you name it. But my dogs are house dogs, not kennel dogs, and they are encouraged to have as many other relationships as possible.

by susanandthek9s on 17 January 2009 - 19:01

"Regarding the 7-8 week old bonding frame...I don't think thats true at all. A prime example is my heeler. He came as a two year old rescue and bonded to me stronger then any dog I've ever had in my entire life. The dog is absolutely intent on me, doesn't stop looking at me, doesn't leave my side, turns himself inside out when I praise or pat him. Which ever door I go in he waits at that door till I come out. "

You are, of course, entirely correct about this. This sort of intense bonding is common with rescue dogs, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps your complaint is that Jano doesn't show this sort of desperately intense bonding? But he shouldn't, unless he's a rescue pup or psychologically unstable. I think you have an excellent situation as far as Jano and the heeler are concerned. Heelers can be hideously aggressive with other dogs, and it sounds like your heeler has happily accepted Jano, is doing his best to raise him, and doesn't get jealous.

Poor Jano! Now his owner is going to take away one of the greatest joys of his life--and expect him to love her for it.

by Puputz on 17 January 2009 - 19:01

It really is quite simple. *You* have to be more fun than any dog. And you have to do it without resorting to bribery. While I don't leave puppies alone with the older dogs if I'm away, while at home I do let them run together, and they love to crowd each other for attention from me. You have to bond with him seperately, bond with the other dog seperately so that when the pup is around he chooses *you* over the pup (and the pup picks up on this), and then, you have to learn to control them together. This is easy when they think you're fun and regard you as the leader.

by chicki on 18 January 2009 - 17:01

Thanks everyone. I guess the key is everything in moderation.
Susan, I do train both at the same time sometimes. I'd love to have him in the house with me all the time, but with four little dogs already in the house it would just be way too much. (As well as hubby having a bit of a adversion to double coated dogs living inside). I also wanted to mention to you that although the heeler came from a rescue, he was not a neglected or abused dog. His owner died and the family turned him over to the rescue group. I think they are a little different mentally and more of a one person type of dog. I truly think that not only is it the individual dog but the breed as well that bonds to other dogs easier then others. Our little bostons and frenchie are a perfect example of that. They basically never had or had very very little time spent separate from the others with one on one with us.
Again, thank you all.

Lynn
www.spruceviewfarms.com

by susanandthek9s on 18 January 2009 - 19:01

The key isn't everything in moderation. The key is being the kind of person worth bonding to. I have two male GSDs that are deeply bonded to each other. This kind of friendship is a gift, and I wouldn't dream of taking it away from them or restricting it. Taking away a dog's friends to make him develop a sick dependence on you is a cheap, crappy trick used to avoid doing the more time-consuming and generous things needed for a real bond. And it's just plain rotten mean.

Maybe this will help you see why it's wrong. Suppose you had a very jealous boyfriend. And suppose one day he decided that you weren't bonded enough to him, and prevented you from talking to your friends, your parents, and your acquaintances. Would this make you bond to him?

Why on earth shouldn't your pup love playing with his heeler friend? Why can't you just go for walks with the two of them and join in the play, instead of taking his fun away? And why should you take the heeler's friend away from him and lock the heeler up more? Why should the heeler be punished?

I have never known any breed that bonded more closely and intensely with their people than the GSD. However, I have also never known any breed with better judgment about people than the GSD. Unless your pup is very stupid, he knows that you really don't think very highly of him. He's picking up on your frustration and unhappiness with him. Why should he prefer the company of someone who, at best, likes him a little to the company of a friend who loves him and enthusiastically enjoys him for what he is?

by chicki on 18 January 2009 - 21:01

Can't even comment Susan, your just so far off base in how I feel that it's just not worth the effort .

by justcurious on 18 January 2009 - 21:01

chicki - i have not read the replies to your question but you might find SATS method very helpful in bonding and creating 2 way communication with your young pup - www.synalia.com - it may take time but i bet you'll end up having the relationship you want with him. the best of luck and enjoy jano.

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