downing on an article during a track - Page 2

There have been some very good techniques mentioned, but the one thing I would never do is what QMAN mentioned. 

"I would give the dog the command to "down"...and also at the same time I would give a little "POP" on the lead...just a little pop...not a correction...but just sorta a reminder to "down"."

I would NEVER give even the slightest "POP" of the lead. How many times has your line gotten a little snagged during  a track? During a corner it gets hung up breifly on a twig... Gives the dog that little "POP" feeling. Then what??? The dog has now false indicated an article because of YOUR training method. BYE BYE points. The database is a great tool but make sure you take the advice of someone who knows what they're talking about and actually TRIALS and TITLES their dogs.

Know where your articles in training are. Make them big enough where the dog can't miss them at first. They will stop at this "NEW THING" on the track. When they do, say platz.... Make the articles smaller as your training progresses. Always know where your articles are and if it looks like they are going to blow by it lean back a little and slow the dog until you are at the article and don't let the dog go past it.... Continue as mentioned in the first response.

I would say that 99.99999% of all the dogs that compete at a high level (like at the world level) have had some form of pressure training at some point in their training. I would say that 90% of the time that pressure came in the form of a "POP" on the leash. Those dogs seem to do just fine. Sure if you are in the pressure phase of training and your leash snags the dog might react negatively, but then you train through it an move on.

Shutzhund tracking is an obedience exercise. I train my dogs to track with the same philosophy I do in obedience. I build drive and manipulate the rewards and environment to shape the behaviors I like. I want to reward behaviors I like and deter or correct behaviors I do not like.

Von Kohlen Berg: Would you please enlighten me to these greats???????  Considering I've seen train and or trained in tracking with, at one time or another, a number of the GREAT trackers in the U.S. including, among others,  Gene England, Wallace Payne and Garry Hanarhan, and have NEVER seen them "POP" a lead EVER. Yes PREASURE is used on the dogs. Different ways for each of these named trainers and even different preasure for different dogs. But again NEVER a "POP" on the lead.

A trow chain, a bean bag tossed at the dog. Yeah. I have even seen dogs wacked with the end of a lead but never, NEVER a lead "POP." The reason why Is that none of the other 3 means of correction could possible have something simmilar happen during a trial like a "POP" could.

So those 3 trainers alone equals how many national championship WINS???????? Let alone TOP 10 finishes????????So I would say that you 90% stat. is way off. So let's see who these trainers are out there competeing at high levels are.......

Dutch Boy,

Gene is the founding father of pressure tracking, he is the best. So he uses no leash corrections for tracking? what about on the table for the articles. Maybe they uses more e-collar now but I asure you Gene, Gary, and Wallace have used leash corrections for tracking at some point in time. I layed  tracks at the WUSV this year and was able to see many competitor prep their dogs (some of them used leash corrections on little practice tracks) and I also talked to many of them. Every competitor I talked to about their philosophy on tracking was that tracking is an Obedience excise and from time to time there needs to be a little bit of pressure in what ever form that might be. Most of them that when they mentioned pressure they singnaled line correction with their hands. 

Other people that use line corrections in some form that I know of and have V'd at bigger events are Mark Scarberry (sp?) I laid the track for his dog at the HOT trial were he and his dog made a 100 pts. A wonderful guy named John Mayor, who I train with, also recieved a V in that same trial (96pt) who trains tracking with leash corrections. They might not use line correction alot but they have corrected their dogs on the track with a line.

throw chains and bean bags???? when did you train with these people?  If you think throwing objects at your dog on the track is a better form of correction then a line pop then you need to crawl out of your cave, shut your mouth and listen to people who know what they are talking about.

Excellent advise from Molly.  As she mentioned "you as the handler must A) know where the articles are,"....

When I am tracking in a field and maynot have visible markings to remember where my articles are I use golf balls as a marker,  I toss them to the left or right about 10 feet AWAY from the article.  This way I am always ready to correct the platz if needed and make sure the dog doesn't pass the article. 

Susan

For markers for my articles I use heavy steel washers with ribbon on them, but I like the Idea of golf balls in short grass.

Molly always has good advise on tracking. She has been around for a long time and has tracked her dogs to very high levels.

all this tracking talking makes me want to go track my dog. to bad we have two feet of snow:(

The golf balls do work great in short grass.  I should have mentioned I have pink ones to mark the articles & use white ones to mark my corners.  This way I'm never confused.

Susan

I don't think I would ever hear the end of it if I used pink golf balls!!  If I use them I think I will stick to white!!

I think you can find golf balls in yellow.  Wouldn't want you to be poked fun at!