Sad news - the passing of Manfred Heyne - Page 2

Gustav, I understand patterned training (always following the same routine, dog is not given much chance to think for itself,) but what is patterned breeding?

Go to any American or German show and you will readily see the patterns that the breeders are striving for. Don't want to go any further than that because the elitest will get defensive and think I am bashing.I  will say that if you go down the history of Manfred's dogs you won't see these patterns except for patterns of intelligence and biddability.

Okay, I get your drift. The VA dogs and grand victors get the lion's share of the breeding. Overuse of any one sire is never a good idea genetically.

Sunsilver, individual dogs are not what I mean, but it really isn't important....we lost a great man in the breed and I feel fortunate to understand and subscribe to his philosophy for the "breed".

Herr Heyne was one of the last remaining links to the world of the GSD before the Martin Brothers broke it apart between the SV showlines and working lines. Furthermore, he was one of the last living links to the old German shepherds (human) that actually used GSDs for their original work.
However, Herr Heyne's influence on the breed is very limited because he only bred for himself. He did not sell many of his dogs and did not promote them. He was not a breeder but a working shepherd. Thus, the old bloodlines he nurtured never had and never will have the impact on the breed that they should have had. He was not a politician so he did not have any influence on the SV. The truth is in this world, it is the politicians who shape the future.
His influence is mainly on the philosophical level, through the writings of his ardent follower, Ms. Nicklesberg, and not on the bloodline level. It is worthwhile for any GSD breeders and breed lovers to google Nicklesberg's articles to know the philosophy of the man.

Ellen and a few other individuals have Manfreds lines!

ron

If I were into herding, I'd buy one of those puppies. Can't go wrong with 60, 70 years of proven goods.

Cool, old timer, the more I read about him,the more I like him. He will be missed.

 "His influence is mainly on the philosophical level, through the writings of his ardent follower, Ms. Nicklesberg, and not on the bloodline level. It is worthwhile for any GSD breeders and breed lovers to google Nicklesberg's articles to know the philosophy of the man."

Thank goodness Ellen and those other few who cherish the breed's herding heritage will keep Herr Heyne's knowledge and bloodlines alive.  This aspect of the breed's character is so often overlooked, to the detriment of the dogs in the long run.

How can we learn more from his methods? Does Ms Nicklesberg write on his theories?

I think it would have been a lot better for the dogs and for the rest of us if we had sometimes spent less time arguing and bickering and socializing, and maybe a little more time learning from the great old men and women of the past. Now that opportunity is passing away, very fast.

Still the dog sport and the GSD breed have blossomed in some ways, up to new levels and there is a great body of new information and ideas available. We need to exercise the greatest care that this is not all destroyed by the animal rights wrecking crew.

  "Auf Wiedersehen, Herr Heyne"...

"If I were into herding, I'd buy one of those puppies. Can't go wrong with 60, 70 years of proven goods."

(Not attacking you Adi since you're one of the good guys in this board, but just using the statement as an example.)

Of course, Herr Heyne is perhaps not the one to blame for the lack of influence his profound knowledge has actually had on the gene pool, but the fact the GSD breeders seem to think that if they don't do herding, then the rare herding bloodlines of the GSD breed are not relevant.
I would argue that it is precisely because the breed has gone away from herding bloodlines that we now have some of the problems in the breed. and have lost or are losing some of the great qualities the GSD used to have. Balanced drives, nerve strength, uncanny "humanlike" intelligence, physical health and hardiness of a true farm animal, biddability, judgement, a mutually respectful dog-human bond, easy trainability, self-control over prey drive, clear headedness, calmness, an off switch, long lasting intensity, courage, character, temperament, knowing how to treat children, puppies and lambs differently from adults, self-control over aggression, physical stamina, true everyday working structures....these are just some of the GENETIC inborn qualities that came from the GSD being a herding dog. And the farther we go away from the herding dog, the more likely we start losing these qualtiies in the gene pool. These qualities are not only useful in a herding dog but in a working dog period and as a family pet. A number of GSDs that end up being killed in the pound are precisely because of the loss of these qualtities.