Why are GSD shows dying on their feet? - Page 2

Yes it's pretty much worldwide it seems.  Such a shame.   I went to several shows in the beginning and did well for a newcomer who no one knew.   However, the circus, as described by one of the above, around the show ring, was the first thing I can't seem to handle too well.   I felt like judging the antics of the owners circus around the ring, with the German trainer of Bullinger being top contender as she howled like a hyena in need of spaying...  while rambling a bucket of marbles next to me.  I thought my head was going to explode and my heart was coming out of my chest.  (the running)  Couldn't get rid of the Bitch...  I started to holler, "CALL 911; i'M going down! or she is"   I tried to outrun her and even half a soccer field away she outscreamed all of us... !"§$%&/()=?  That was at the 2003 nationals, I was horrified about that and then some, and left the next morning real early to head back home to my quiet ranch in NM. 

Funny how, something like a disaster, can change everything and push the importance level down to nothing of 'how nice are these puppies' looks anyway'.... I totally lost interest. She was back, who cares ...  Yet, she placed TENTH in the country ;) in the 3-6 months age group.

Another story that comes to mind about politics is one about Ursus von Batu.   I was fortunate to meet the owner of Hobby Gletschertopf, Ursus' Sire as most know,  in 2004 at the Sieger Show in Germany.   This was because I had just purchased VA Dian, Ursus' half brother,  from him Herr Horst Gläsner of vom Jägerfreund,  and wanted to meet him to talk about Hobby.    Needles to say Hobby was a great one. Sadly,  his fertility was destroyed while in the care of  Körmeister Herr  Karl-Heinz Zygadto.  And when Gläsner went to visit Hobby one day and Hobby was very depressed.  Horst Gläsner pulled Hobby out of the kennel on the spot and Hobby found his permanent home in Sweden at http://www.kennel-oliver.se/  which is where after 10 breedings it was clear Hobby was infertile.   He was retired and lived happily with the Olivers until his passing at 12 and a half yrs  old. 

Back to the politics.  Sorry it is just that this info should be out there so inquisitve people can balance their opinions and judgements when making decisions about what happened and why?   I#m getting there ok, its the Larus von batu end result.

A great dog in the hands of the wrong handler (as mentioned by someone here) is useless.  A not so great dog in the hands of a powerful judge is useful.    Ursus was the litter pick of Horst Gläsner, in exchange for the breeding to Hobby.   At 8 weeks, Horst (vom Jägerfreund kennel) was unable to pick Ursus up immediately and asked Erich Orschler (von Batu) if he could pick  him up after a few weeks.   Then, when Horst went over the the von Batu kennel, he was not only told he could not have Ursus, but he could not have ANY of the pups.
   
This started, needless to say, a feud between the powerful and manipulative friends of Erich Orschler and Horst Gläsner.  With as a result, SG31 Dian Baronenwald was   pushed out of the show circuit as he was becoming a  serious contender.  This was in favor of SG92 Domino vom Baronenwald, the brother of Dian, who was owned by a friend of Orschler.  Yes, the one who placed 31 places BEHIND Dian in the same show and the one who went V2 the next year...   (pls ck the Urma 1999 book to compare pic

continued.

.   (pls ck the Urma 1999 book to compare pics of the two and their breed surveys to see which dog is the better one.)  

Hence, Gläsner was informed by Erich Orschler to 'get Dian the heck out of the German shows or he would have him placed at the back of the ring and embarrass him'.  Thus Dian went off in the foreign shows proofing his worth in Argentina (VA7) and Sweden (VA6), but unless you get a paw in the door in Germany, you don't score for real, so to speak.  
Simply look at what Dian produced in fewer breedings than Domino through Space Tobini (BOB and BOS Sweden) and Avangard Glace, the female Russian Champion and in Germany V4 (Germany Regionals I believe) from the Swedisch kennel ‘Superioues Lilla My’.  And what did Domino produce though he stayed in Germany? http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny/30366.html with many more breedings thus progeny than Dian?  

It is simply said a crime to push out a great dog in exchange for money and fame, but clearly it happens.  
 
We know what Ursus did and produced well.  We know his son Yasko is phenomenal and produced well.  We also must wonder why Larus von Batu was sold quickly after two Sieger wins and was not kept in the German shows. And to Asia, where there is no way he could put a dent into anything worthwhile.  Money talks...    I was there at his first win, and not many where happy in the crowds.   It was Erich Orschlers last show to judge at age 70 and he could care less which dog was deserving.  He was going out with a bang and proclaimed a dog with HIS kennel name Sieger.   The crowd favored Erasmus van Noort but Orschler obviously had nothing to loose! 

And the next year Larus (a handsome dog indeed but not a producer which is the qualifcation to win the Sieger title) wins again.   My best guess is the two judges scratched each others back to disproof the rumors of the previous year’s win.  

Another example is V7 Trixi vom Klebinger Schloß.  She was shown by her breeder Lorenz Stroble (now deceased) rigorously and was to go VA after her SG1 and yet, her owner, Robert Venus of vom Venushof Belgium (now retired from breeding) was told by
the judge (breeder of Aus Agrigento) that 10,000 german marks would earn her a low VA (like 10) and more would earn her a high VA.   
Roberts reply was “well its kinda hard to place her in a low V ranking considering her show circuit record” Thus she went V7 in 2001 and 2002  in a row.  

Shows Date                 Place           Judge                                Group     Result    
September 2002     Karlsrühe       Leonhard Schweikert     GHKLH     V     7
September 2001     Düsseldorf     Leonhard Schweikert     GHKLH     V     7
August 2000             Bremen           Günther Müller                JKLH     SG     1
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Hermann Martin (the famous SV president and breeder of vo

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Hermann Martin (the famous SV president and breeder of von Arminius kennel) would be turning around in his grave if he could witness what happened after his death in 1996 two weeks after the Sieger show.  I was told by someone that when a crowded room was buzzing and suddenly when Hermann started to speak, the crowd would be silent instantly.  He would never have allowed such behavior of his judges to the misfortune of his beloved breed.       

How do we turn this around?  The only thing I can think of is that the smaller German breeders get together and start on a mission with complaining about what they see and experience.  The SV might have to listen when those breeders create sort of a ‘Boston Tea Party’ riot of their own.   I’ll bet Hermann (and Walter his brother, the breeder of the Wienerau Kennel) will be all for it!

                           

 It's not fun anymore...

Well... I started dogsport in the late 70'ts... I went to Germany 3-4 times a week (live in Belgium). All those years I went to the shows and always had fun. In the beginning, there was also politics... politics that time where very honest (?) but everybody could live with it and understood. I explain.... when there were 5 top dogs from same quality in the ring, the one from the judge's friend ore the one from his collegue, came in front, everybody could live with that... this was so all the time as long Herman Martin and Peter Messler where Presidents... and than the moneymakers came... now.... dogs from less quality come in front... a shame... at a this year show, I entered my female (she was top last year and won Landesgruppenshow) she made V11 from 15 dogs... in front all to big females ( they were in the back last year because they were 62-64cm)... this year they were owned by judges etc... now they came in front off mine...

Other... a male dog judged by a "famous" German judge, made last place because he was 67cm, a few months later, thius same dog, was owned by that same judge and makes top rankings in Germany.

Other... other famous "Judge" (very small guy and sometimes he acts like Hitler), made VA's when the owner promised him that he could breed with them... other people did not have a chance...

other... same judge made a female as Siegerin in the working class, owned by his best friend, she was normally very white... judge's partner in crime (by the way, she has VA's every year in her kennel) painted her very red so she became a new siegerin...

I could tell you maybe more as 100 story's like this ones but there is not enough place for this all....

I made my discision...

I took my dog out off the ring and sold everything... it's done.... this after 30years off dogsport.....!!!!!

I've asked this of a number of breeders and so far have not received a single response or comment. Why do so many of you subscribe to a system that is set up to fail all except the Germans and a few hand-picked breeders in the US and elsewhere? 

You only have a few shows to choose from judged by the same judges, usually from Germany,  who already know the breeders and owners of the dogs before they enter the ring.  Some of their entries are dogs they have bred or are sired by their stud dog. If that's not enough, handlers are allowed to sport team colors and names on their jogging suits and permitted to sit under the tent talking to the judges prior to showing under them.  Young dogs that leave the ring when the gun is fired are allowed back in  and awared a high VP rating because their handler is someone important.  I won't even talk about the bitework. I've heard that the judges, handlers and owners often socialize with one another before and after the judging. You can't win with you own dog and are forced to pay outrageous fees for scantally clad  woman and overweight men with beer bellies to run your dog around the ring when you or a family member or friend could present your dog as well or better.  And you guys think AKC shows are political?

Benny G "got it".

Yeah, Like I said earlier, this list goes on.  Shame... but it's not much fun anymore.  I watch some of the owners ringside, screaming at their dogs and wonder why they have them... their dogs hardly know who they are! 

There's truth in all the postings, unfortunately and I don't know how it's ever going to improve.  Why do people want "bought or hooky" wins/Champions, where's the merit in that?

I think cost has a lot to do with lower particpation throughout the sport recently. .

SS

 I see that the general consensus : is perceived corruption, and spiralling costs.  The second one we do can very little about, but the first one, we certainly can.  We can insist, as club members, that we, as opposed to the committee, pick the Judge's, it's not Rocket science, find a suitable time to get the full complement of club members together, pehaps this could take place at your AGM, whatever, it can be done, we are all sick of Reciprocating Judging Appointments.  At the British Seiger Show  Bill Owen, David Payne and myself were discussing this very point during some liquid refreshment, when i made an off the cuff comment: Now i know that by that time some Jamesons had been consumed, but they both looked at me strangely, say that again Paul, ok , THE ONLY THING THEY CAN TRUST IS THEIR DISHONESTY.  What  a paradox , they dont want you to judge honestly, because they cant work it out,  think about it.  This reverberates right down the chain to the very people we should be looking to nurture, THE NOVICES.  And then they drift away, and we are left as we are now.

Yes, I guess that would work to some degree Paul but why should it be so hard to find an honest judge?  Under what circumstances would you be prepared to put the best dog/bitch second?  It can't take much for some can it?