Inbreeding, why is it taboo? - Page 2

With every type of breeding there is am equal risk. No gaurantees on quality. In nature top males will only breed with females, somehow this ensures the survival of the fittest even if it means brother/sister, son/ mother mating.

I would like to further study this subject. I feel there is a formula for success and disaster but might as well learn the formula.

has anyone actually tried this or know anyone who have tried this to comment

The reason being is in that their has been such a wash out on genes etc. Back in the day over 50 yrs ago Plus! Plus!People needed there dogs to work and as well as pigeons.etc horses....on earth..Hmm lets include the camels and the llamasetc etc. etc.Everyone back then was intune and had great knowledge by examination of what they would in breed for a purpose for that breed in developmental (sp) means..not a market of sales.In correcting..It can be used But You need to be full aware of what you are doing..My guess the majority do not.In bringing up the lines so to speak whether paternal or materal by the 2x2 etc etc or even by doing a total outcross.Hmm The percentages are on paper.It is along process to evaluateand I dont think there is much time left  to create  from what is left.

inbreeding is no taboo. Its being done now and was always done in dogs. Only thing you need to know what you are doing and what result to expect. Only for experts

regards

This has been discussed a number of times in threads. Long story short, inbreeding and linbreeding is accepted in most breeds. It should be limited to experienced breeders using only dogs that are the best examples of their line/s with an unquestionalbe history of excellent health and production. Inbreeding is not intended to be practiced generation after generation.  Brackett felt the ideal linebreeding was g-daughter back to g-sire or g-son back to g-dam. Correctly used by educated and knowledgable breeders, the right inbreed/linebred litter can advance a breeding program 3, 4 generations. Abused and it can result in a disaster.

As a matter of academic interest, the foundation dogs for this entire breed are limited to, as far as I can tell, less than 125 dogs, probably a lot less,  and most of them are also closely related.  I am still unclear as to the foundation dogs of the Czech dogs, but I think they are the same dogs as behind the German dogs? Does anyone know for certain?

If you calculate  your COI (coefficient of inbreeding) you may be surprised to learn that it is impossible to outcross in the purest sense of the word. The genes of the foundation dogs from the 1800's are still in the current gene pool in different combinations. Genes never just "go away", the good along with the bad remain forever. In other words, all purebred GSD's are related. The end results are all about the power of selective breeding as witnessed by looking at the phenotypical differences between the American show lines, the German working lines and the German show lines all of which go back to exactly the same foundation dogs.  They look and behave as they do today due to the selection of breeding stock made by each individaul breeder. If the criterium were a pretty red and black dog that could go Va,  that's what they selected for.  If it were a high drive working dog that could excel in mansports, then that was the priority and so on. We have made all these dogs what they are today. 

I would add that if one must ask the original question, it demonstrates a lack of understanding of breeding, genetics and all the concerns one should have to begin with. And that suggests that this is someone who needs a lot more experience before breeding, period.

BTW, in the purest sense of the terms, inbreeding and linebreeding,  the German formulas of 3-3, 4-4, 5-5 and so on are red herrings and are not really true pictures of the COI of any one dog. They only indicate the absence or presence of a specific dog/s in the first 5, 6 generations and not whether or not those dogs are related to the other dogs and how. Only way to know that is to buy a software program like BreedMate, plug in all all your pedigrees back to day one and move forward from there.  Those German formulas are helpful certainly, but they are not all there is to consider either. Some breeders I know feel that COI's are a bunch of crap and that the foundation dogs' influence is no longer viable. Others feel that the foundation dogs are still very influential in today's gene pool. You be the judge.

Breeding good dogs ain't easy. If it were we see a lot more of them

When you have a breeding that produces several health issues in the pups how would determine what caused it?  Was it the combination, ex. too much line breeding, Sire or Dam????  Obviously a repeat breeding would be out of the question but how would you ensure breeding either dog again wouldn't produce any issues????

Teri 

If you didn't have a complete history of both side's, and knowledge of those issue's?

It would be trial and error.    Unless you personally know the line's this information, health,and so on is not available.

You don't know.   is the answer.

misused by many , misunderstood by most

Teri, to answer your questions you wouldnt know unless you breed them again, not to each other, but to new mates of similar linage.   

The truth of the matter is that no matter how much research you do,  breeding is just as much a gamble as buying an 8 week old pup sight unseen.  Unless the breeding has been done before, ie repeat breeding, one has no true basis to judge the pups on. 

i have seen ( and im sure others have also)  dogs from totally different lines that have similar appearance, drive, tempernment, etc.   i have seen dogs from the same lines that are so different that you wouldnt guess they had any of the same blood.   Look at any given litter of pups.  How many of them are the same? 

Linebreeding, you atempt to improve or compound the good and avoid the bad.     To bad it doesnt work as well on paper as it does in life.

john