PC,

You might check out (http://www.shawlein.com) and go to the illustrated standard's, type's of breed's page.

If you haven't already, it's a good site.

Brent.

animules said

"The majority of people involved in GSD's do NOT consider the panda acceptable.  Not rare, just not acceptable"

That's understandable.... I'm not to find of them either.... they look more like a border panda collie with out the nise structure. I personally prefer Silver Sable or Black and Red

deleted for double posting

its always a good idea to put a link to OFA too

I'm partial to Pennhip... I get more information from them. It allows me to make a better choice for which ones i should be breeding too..

OFA has 3 doctors who are opinionated and they can change depending on what region your from, vet's ability to take an x-ray. I've gotten 2 different results from the same GSD with OFA so my confidence in them are about "nil". With PennHip... it's more analytical and I don't have to wait 2 years or 6 months.

Argh.... double post again

Paradise Creek GSD writes-"My breeding program consist of the Old-Style German Shepherd and thier size alone disqualifies them from the standard."

 

 

I'm always confused when I see this statement. What is the Old-Style you are breeding towards? If it is the style of Capt. von Stephanitz, then large would not be it. He states very clearly and many times in his book "The German Shepherd in Word and Picture" that the dog should be of a size to be agile and able to sustain at work the entire day. Bigger was not considered better. A direct quote from von Stephanitz's writings.

"The basis of the judgement must be the service to which is demanded of the dog: shy, weak-nerved animals are to be marked as injurious to the breed, even as over-bred, oversized dogs are not true to breed type."

 

Annette

 

I'm going to piss people off with this statement, but you can't honestly tell me that the GSD hasn't been transformed over the years from what it used to be, to what it is now?

With the excessive infatuation with the extreme angulation and  sloping back has totally produced another breed other than the old style GSD. The Newer breed is no longer the German Shepherd of the 40's and 50's. They are an entire breed of their own.

I don't breed for just size..... My priorities are Health, temperament, intelligence and as a bonus then size. Unfortunately with the American GSD... the desire for the physical attributes out weighed the other attributes and eventually another breed was inspired. Through the years the GSD has suffered health, temperament and intelligence which  Max von Stephanitz dedicated his life & love to produce and made the GSD world known.

"Not all good dogs are champions, and not all champions are good dogs" This is the German Shepherd by Capt. WM Goldbecker

In short.... I'm not breeding show dogs. I'm breeding the working GSD from times past. If you are interested in a Show dog with Champion title for parents, then by all means go get one. To each is his own...

If you want a German Shepherd from times past then I will be happy to oblige. I'm not here for a pissing match....

 Edit= " I wanted to simply state.... not all breeders of show dogs represent the qualities I just stated. A few believe in Health, Temperament, Intelligence are more important than physical attributes and I give them all my respect."

From the short time I have been on this board.... I believe this is mostly a "working dog" forum. So I will tell you... The majority of the "old style" GSD....[NOT AMERICAN]..... are smaller,stock coated, strait backed and could work all day and night. They were not Large long haired couch potatoes. Pedigree or not, they worked hard, and could do it because of correct breeding. IMO.... Correct me if I am wrong, because I am no expert.

According to Willis (1990), the Sieger title was abandoned in 1938 (to stop concentration on a single line), followed by war, during which time the dogs were longer bodied, lower to the ground and heavier than they had been in the 1920s.  The war destroyed much of the breed, and the SV revived in 1946 later reintroducing the Sieger in 1955, as the dogs became lighter, closer to 36kg than 40kg, and a shift toward some angulation, unlike the squarer dogs of the 1920s.

I would suppose at first glance that the OP believes that "old style" means 150 lb. oversized dogs, a myth spread by King & Shiloh shepherd breeders.  But during those years the breed was slightly heavier, nearer the upper end of the standard of 40kg (88 lbs.), though shorter and longer in stature, supposedly from the Lex Preußenblut / Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land lines, which were prominent at the time.

VA Klodo vom Boxberg, 1921

VA Lex Preußenblut, 1944

VA Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land, 1947