Puppy and training, begginers mistake. - Page 2

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Bancroft, for a rookie, and all around house dog this is fine. If you want 100% sport, or PPD dog you wouldn't do any obedience what so ever till later, you would want to keep drives, and confidence, and "craziness" at max. But obviously you wouldn't be able to live with dog like that in a family environment, or at least would be little bit hard.

Sorry for the double post. I hit "back" on my browser this morning thinking it would take me to the main board and somehow my post was submitted again.

I do have another bit of advice. Don't let someone else teach your puppy to shake. or anything else. I taught Bella to retrieve a ball, sit in front of me and drop the ball in my hand. I thought that was pretty good for 3 months old. (She is now 4 months) Last weekend my ex taught Bella to retrieve her ball then "shake" before giving it back. Bella must think shaking is pretty cool because all she does is swat at me now until I shake her paw, then she starts swatting with the other paw. If I want the ball back I have to wrestle it out of her mouth. My ex must think Bella is a poodle.

I have been teaching Bella obedience, but only as a game. Lots of praise, no corrections. It seems to be working, at least for now. As for excercise, Bella burns off energy by makng laps around the backyard chasing the big dogs. Not sure if jumping is good for puppies, but I have seen her jump over the top of one of the adults when they got in her way.

Bancroft, the video, wowed by those on another thread, is sad (my opinion)...and, I will have to disagree with Snajper69, it is not good for even a "house dog."  In this case (video), I am guessing that the handler is an AKC obedience enthusiest due to the early formal imprinting of obedience displayed on the video...most "house dogs" have little to no training.  If you watch the video closely, you will see avoidance behavior and clear physical behaviors (lowering the head for the down comes to mind) that tell me compulsion has already been implemented in this puppy's training program.  There is no real willingness to work for the handler or joy in the work, easily observed by the lack of tail wagging (no enthusiasm) during the work and even when it was released from an exercise and half heartedly praised by its handler. I will agree with Snajper69, and others on this thread, that learning  (for me no formal obedience until the pup is around a year) should be very informal and fun...this will encourage great drives and a willingness to work.

Bottom line...without a willing (generally displayed by attentiveness and a wagging tail... without food) participant , you will gain nothing towards a successful working relationship with your canine companion.

Jasmine

No such thing as too much obedience, if you look at scores esp in the UK that is what lets most competitors down.

If you train badly that is one thing, but if you train well then no spark, drive, joy, etc is removed only heightened.

Ida

I don't disagree that the pup in the video could be more "spirited", but I don't neccessarily believe that the dog has had compulsion type of work.  I think it is more of a matter of doing too much too quick with a dog that is 17 weeks.  Not that the dog just started, but is at this point at 17 weeks, which tells me the trainer has been at it for some weeks.  I think it is just too much for such a young dog.  I think this is a time to increase and build drives, not a time to exhaust what is currently there. 

If I was the handler, I would be proud of the accomplishments made, but I would let the pup be a pup.  There is no rush.  That team has over a year before they are even ready for a BH.  AND think of this.  If you can do this much and have a puppy this far at 17 weeks, think about how fast you could have a 12 month old dog with correct imprinting and properly built drives ready for a trial in a few months. 

*note to handler:  While heeling, the dog lags a bit.  Probably because the dog is a bit tired and too much is being done.  Your sticking the food down at your side and using it to lure the dog into the correct position.  I don't have speakers on this computer, so I can't hear if anything or what is being said, but I would keep the heeling shorter and get more excited myself.  When the dog is in the right position, you must reward immediately, marking the behaivior. 

Number 1 mistake: Helpers who insist on trying to start the youngster in defense instead of building their confidence through prey work and understanding when to start gradually channeling to defence and back. Ruins more dogs than I care to think about, and dumb as hell.

Number 2 mistake: too much formal obedience with hard corrections before the youngster is "solid" on the helper. (and they wonder why the dog looks back at them in the blind???)

Number 3 mistake: Poor imprinting of tracking when the dog is a puppy, or, more often no tracking at all.

Number 4 mistake: Poor socialization and/or allowing the pup to be dominated by older dogs, either raised with a pack or otherwise.

JMHO, SS

So you guys are saying limit obedience to sit, down, here simple things until a year old.  Work on imprinting for tracking with short training sessions.  Allow some monitored pack socialization ensuring that the pup is not getting beat down during interaction with the older dogs.  Set up lots of positive play sessions where the pup wins the tug, ball, etc.  Take the pup to many different places around people, etc.  Pretty much just let th pup take everything in, right?

Teri      

That's about it. I try to limit negative experiences as much as possible, right up through puberty... and forget defence till the dog tells us its ready for it, probably the toughest call of all, and the best reason for working with a top helper.

SS