German Handlers at Conformation Shows - Page 2

It wasn't his dog that he handled.  He was paid to handle someone elses so there probably wasn't a dog in the room.  I am just guessing at this.

Since I am the one who started this I would like to say a couple of things.

I agree that people can be assholes irrespective of nationality or where they live. We are most likely all adults here and I do not think that this needs to pointed out.

I did not say that we should ban German handlers. I am, in fact, of German descent myself.

Hodie, from your post I take it that you may be someone who likes to waste their money paying handlers. If so, in my opinion, too bad for you.

What I did say is that we should look in to banning paid handlers. This has gotten out of hand and I believe I made that point in my oroginal post. This is a self-perpetuating problem.

I also come from a background in sailing which prides itself on being a gentleman's sport. People involved in the dog show world are ever increasingly taking the exact opposite approach. For example look at this very web site. It started out as a great idea and it has turned in to "The Great Dumping Ground for German Shepherds". When I view all of the ads for available dogs I think to myself that if each and every one of these dogs found a home every house hold in America would own a GSD. How sad to think of what might be happening to all these dogs and we are supposed to be the guardians of the breed.

I wrote the original post because I think we have a problem. I feel very badly for someone that has a really great dog and if they can not afford it they have no chance of placing well with their dog. (I am not one of these people, I do not compete in conformation) In Germany they have their own sieger show. We also have one here, but, it has increasingly become the second German sieger show. I would much rather see all of the wasted money go to training more helpers here and increasing the skills of those we do have here.

 OGBS,

I do not bring Germans here specifically to handle my dogs as I rarely am able to take them to a Sieger Show. If I had a dog who was of high quality, you can bet that I would find the best handler I could, and yes, people do not generally handle dogs for others for nothing. Proper and competent handling is important. I, for one, however, would not hire the individual in question if there was not a single other handler available. People hire people like this because they think they are getting a leg up on not only the show placement, but in breeding, in making contacts etc. Most people I know see through all that.

In the one SS I did participate in, I paid a friend who is an American to handle my dog for me. Why? Because I am partially disabled and I cannot run. I am also too heavy, and I am too old. Banning paid handlers or whatever is a silly idea. People have the right to participate or not and as long as they do so in a fair manner, so what? If someone wants to show their own dog and can do it, I say go for it. At our own local shows we sponsor, we even have children show our dogs.

There may be politics or not. There may be idiots who are drunks and people know exactly who you/I are likely referring to. I have met this person and would never want him at one of my events again. He was brought to a show I participated in by someone else. He was a rude and ill behaved person with an alcohol problem. I cannot fix that, but I choose to stay away from people like him.

The dogs who are shown well, whether one likes it or not, often place the best, assuming all other things are equal and the dog is a nice dog structurally. Presentation is everything, not only in show, but in life and business.

Is there some history and politics behind the placements in shows? Probably there is. But I cannot fix this and neither can you and neither will anything be made better by "banning" anyone for any show because they are paid or are German or whatever.

For what it is worth, I pay my money for helpers. We have no club helper and it is costing a small club a fortune to bring in a helper once or twice a month. And I mean fortune. If you bother to read posts I have written in the past, you will find I am very critical of the fact that the organizations are not doing more for the little guy, small clubs etc., specifically in the way of training more helpers and helping handlers become more competent trainers. I have also sponsored helpers in the past and brought the best helpers in to teach them. But to learn to be a good helper takes a lot of time and study and frankly, most people are not interested. The sport is dying and will continue to do so unless some dramatic changes come about. One of those changes is that more helpers need to be trained. However, that can only be accomplished IF people come forward that want to learn helper work, or want to learn to be better handlers. I have been involved in the sport now for almost 10 years and I still learn every day how to be a better handler and teacher. We bring excellent helpers and we always learn from them, and once in a while, I suspect they learn something from us.

So despite what you wrote, I do not think we are far apart.

"I think that it is high time to look at banning paid handlers at these shows. (ARE YOU LISTENING MR. SPREITLER?)"

Let's face it, pro handlers are part of the "sport" of showing dogs, SV or AKC. Anyone who doesn't think the handler's face is often as important as the dog is not facing reality. I've seen it for almost 40 years at AKC shows and it was very blatant at the one NASS I attended. AKC frowns on it, but they only give lip service; as far as I know, the SV turns a blind eye. Pro handlers will never be banned no matter how much some might wish they were. That would mean a decline in entry fees.

You who show SV style are totally screwed -  you do not have nearly as many shows per year as do those who show AKC style and  your selection of judges is normally limited to a handful of the same judges who come from Europe to judge here year after year.  I've never quite understood why clubs keep bringing over the same judges.  It has to cut down on the entries; wouldn't most rather show to a judge who hasn't judged in the past year ot two than to a judge who has? Duh......With the price of gas, it might behoove show hosting clubs to rethink the way they select their judges and give owners th eopportunity to enter under someone different now and then?

It is a system that is set up to fail the domestic owner-handler . It rewards those with enough money to bring a team from Germany to handle for them at US shows under German judges who are often the same guys they call friends and with whom they shared a beer the night before.   Are all SV judges dishonest? Probably not but try to one of them juding at more than one show in  your general area. . Too bad there are not more people in the US licensed to judge at SV shows. Why is that?

Showing dogs is political, always will be, so you may as well understand it up front. If you can't afford to pay a big name handler, then learn to show  your own dog or teach a family member or friend how to do it. Handling SV style is not all that difficult and anyone who is physically  fit enough to run around the ring can do it. Enjoy your dog and showing it for what it is - a game that you are most likely never going to win regardless of how good your dog is. So what, it's not the end of the world, it's a dog show. You can still get your own dog breed surveyed and titled and there are many other activites you can engage in with you dog. You don't need to pay a pro to do everything you know. The real GSD people know which dogs are the best; they don't need a judge to point it out to them. They just won't ever breed to your male even if he's the best there ever was unless he's a VA dog. But that's their loss...........