Fixing training problem....update - Page 2

Hi thanks. She is 6.5 but has been doing this since she was about 3. I keep waiting for it to go away but it isn't, and in light of the criticisms of the nationals, and somebody whose dog looked like it had had too much compulsion, I suddenly decided to worry about it. My dog has always done a perfect long down except for one time, and that was in a trial so no way could I correct her.

I have a feeling she is....feeling intense anticipation. No weak nerve, just...dying to leap up and knowing she isn't supposed to so feeling guilty in advance. A very knowledgeable trainer had me returning to her grinning like an idiot, but the dog didn't buy in. Another person said, return to her without looking at her at all, and walk right past...that didn't work either. She slinks way down and puts her ears kind of out to the side like she's been caught with her hand in the cookie jar. I'll get a photo of it next Sunday and you will see what I mean. She is a big tough girl and has had LOTS of corrections alright, just not on the long down! She first learned it in puppy class when she was like 3 months and has done it perfectly ever since.

Every stranger who has seen her do it has had something nasty to say. Sigh. I'll get a photo.
 

She is 6 years or six months? If six months I don't like doing platz especially long platz so early, platz is about control and putting the dog in what sometimes might appear to the dog venerable position. I start long platz about 1 year. Before that it's just a game short platz and get up run to me, throw a ball around etc. I make sure every obedience exercise is about fun not control till I feel the dog is ready for learning the control. Every one that seen my dog doing long platz can tell that the dog thinks is just fun exercise, but that's how i make it appear to the dog, that is just silly very rewarding game. Now focus that's one area that I completely suck at. I seem to have issue in getting my dog to heel the way SCH dogs do ;) but I am getting better at it. But once again is all about fun I don't force my dogs in perfect position. If she is 6 months old I would stop doing platz for few months and than come back and start from beginning and make it fun. I just think SCH people put too much controll on a dogs way too early, will that damage dog hell no, but the obedience to me is always lucking somehow.

No, 6 years. She always platzed eagerly, one of those who goes down like they've been shot and wags eagerly for the treat.
I never forced her into position, just guided her with food. This weirdness came long after she had been doing very good long downs with a good position/expression. I am wondering if she is just sick of schutzhund. Putting her out there on the long down might be her first clue that we're going to do that same-old-same-old "pattern" again. I recently decided we are all through with practicing the pattern. She does a LOT better with obedience in general if we haven't walked the pattern for a couple months. Then she generally looks eager. Yes, now I'm wondering if that boring pattern isn't the problem with her platz...

Yes, I believe it might be. I never walk the whole rutine, I worked it in seperate parts, and put together week before I am ready to trail. As well I switch around, long downs I make people walk around the dog even step on the dog tail, walk over her whatever, it makes the dog better as a whole, plus it help discover issues, errors in training etc. I make people throw a balls around the dog while in a down, my idea is 100% dog not SCH dog. So I make it challanging at a time, my favorite exercise is a long down in a kids park ;). I just make sure that the kids don't bother the dog, but they can play around her, even come down and pet her shortly and than walk away. You end up with overall better dog, plus you build trust, you teach dog that no matter what she should fallow what you say because you will never let anything bad happen to him/her.

Makes a lot of sense. I think I'll do her long downs elsewhere for awhile, not at training. Thanks! 

I just want to clutter up the message board by saying
OMG i HAD A GREAT TRAINING DAY TODAY! I hope you all did too!
Thank you and good night.

Many dogs do that. It is part of their inherited communication which enables them to survive in a pack. Leader is coming thus I must show proper respect or get killed. It is an atavistic throw back . It is not a bad thing. Always play tug of war when you finally get to her and then show her a toy as you are walking to her. It may take a time but it should work. Be patient. If you get upset even only in your heart she will know it and you are throwing the exercise backwards. Assure your self that it will work if you do it long enough. That will give you proper peace of mind.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

I didn't see where you commented on how you approach her.  Are you making eye contact with her all the way back while walking crisply towards her?  Try not looking directly into her eyes.  If you are looking her in the eye and coming back with a powerful stride it may be exactly what Prager is saying.  I don't look my girl in the eye simply because she may break and sit up if I do.  I'd try looking past her.  Don't look her in the eye until you have returned to her side and given the sit command then lots of praise.  See if that makes a difference.
Deb

Does this dog look BEATEN or WHAT? I keep returning to her to play, but this is what I'm looking at!!!

I have tried walking briskly, walking slowly, looking away from her, looking at her, grinning, ignoring her...all kinds of things. I guess everybody is just going to believe that I kick the crap out of her for breaking?

She's a freaking phony!




 

UGHHHH My male acts like that! Cowering and cringing. Just like he's been beaten. He is sensitive, but the way mollyandjack stated it.
My husband started handling him because I could not correct him firmly enough to be effective. I don't understand it either VM, I'm glad you made this post.
Also, if he is out playing in the back yard and starts nuisance barking (like at the neighbors cat) as soon as I SHUSH him, he comes walking to the door with this literal hang-dog expression, like he's coming forward to his own execution.
So will it help if instead of SHUSHing, I call him over to play? I don't want him to think that everytime he barks at something, it  will mean playtime...Sorry for hijacking...

Stacy