Breeding Show/Workinglines Together - Page 2

I have two show/working line six year old females and both are extraordinary dogs. I have crossed them with show males and working males, both with good results. When I cross them with working lines, I get higher drives, when crossed with show lines (with good drives for show lines of course) I get very nice looking pups that can also work. I am very pleased with the crosses and think that 3/4 show 1/4 working line pups are top notch, from what I've had so far. Beautiful with an extra bit of "punch" in the work that some show lines lack. I have a litter DDR/West Geman litter due any day now and am very excited!

The show/working combo does seem to have it's positive outcomes.
I have one, too-a female. Father is blk/red show line Vice Sieger VK3, mother is solid black V4, Sch, FH AD IP titled WGR working/DDR/Czech mix. My girl at 7mos old is solid boned, beautiful to watch move, afraid of nothing, clear headed, and a terror to her toys(lol)-very nice ball drive. She's a wiggle-butt due to her puppy nature so it's hard to get a nice clear pic of her 'in natural stance', but I think my pic still shows her overall solidness, decent pigment and conformation potential. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/532420.html.
People who can think a little OUTSIDE the full working or full show 'box' might just see that there ARE benefits to having some show/working combo GSDs. Granted, not all show/working combos will produce the best of both worlds-everything genetic is up to 'fate' so to speak. But from what I see, I have NO problem in show/working combo and find my girl quite appealing and pleasant.

bad stack but gives the idea

My show/working combo girl mentioned earlier. Nothin' weak about her.

I know I've talked to Dawn about this topic many times....

I love the look of the mix but realiastically...where will the pups go? A how home won't take it as the movement so dearly wanted is compromised (as they think) and a working dog person won't touch one with a 10 foot pole!!!

After speaking to MANY Germany breeders, not even they will do this unless there is a TRUE reason to do so. You have to have a goal going into this. So many of our showlines could be improved with some working blood and the working dogs could get a dose of good looks structure wise...but any breeding should have a purpose. I personally don't see a purpose with this for many breeders. Some have done wonderfully...Carlos and Robin (Huerta Hof) have a beautiful female from the cross. But I don't see them doing this regularly....or anyone for that matter.

Just my opinion on the topic....and I would love to see what progeny are coming out of these breedings. Any breeder who has done this...I'd love to know why you did it (your goal) and did you achieve it?

neohaus-as i posted above my pups went into active pet homes and working homes and all are fab i have had no complaints and have also had requests to repeat the mating i myself am a working line lover and would never touch t true showline dog but saying that we kept two

my goal was simple to improve the look but not sacrifice intelegence also i wanted an outcross as i intend to breed the female in the future (if her hips etc are good) to me a stupid dog is a dangerous one also hyper intelegence is equaly dangerous imo. i could guarentee you would love my boy as he has the correct look temperament and intelegence

all the best tracie

Why should anyone care what some  German Breeders that  have benn spoken to would do with a ten foot pole.? I certainly dont, would they also say only such and such dog is the best and everyone else is squat... Like many stud owners do because they are only interested in marketing their own pockets? hmmm or Perhaps they are insecure in knowing what their stock is capable of producing. Its obvious many of the old timers are no longer here... as they did this without problem and good results.. (germans) and many of our USA top 10 breeders have over the years done this succesfully with good production records. Perhaps many of these breeders have different goals. breeding is not one generation by any means. If one chooses to stick were they feel confident so be it...that is ones choice.

With any breeding partners there are many many things to consider. It isnt work/vs show for a longtime goal. as far as I am concerned. The family lines and production on both sides should be evaluated and contemplated then it is tried and tested by going forward. People may be surprised by being more  open minded and also try all of us to be without having blinders =kennel blindness syndrome. There is crap and good on many sides of a pond... you may have to go thru some muck to get to good. (not on purpose of course). :)

Debi

www.sherman-ranch.com

I have had great success with work as well as conformation.

Here is an example:

Debby

http://castlebrookshepherds.net

As far as goals go... most of it is obvious... improve work in show and improve conformation in working lines.  It is not as simple as just breeding "A" show line to "A" working line. Must research and consideration of backgrounds needs to be done. this particular breeding above actually had a common relative in the background ,Sagus Busecker Slosse. Maybe that is one of the reasons why it has been so successful. The other thing I've found is that consistancy in conformation in the litter of most crosses seems to be low sometimes. Since the gene pool is wide open it sometimes gives you a few differenty "types".  I just repeated this breeding above and came up with better consistancy than the first litter.  But the benefits far out weigh the draw backs to me anyway....

debby

http://castlebrookshepherds.net

A few weeks ago I made a post looking for V rated workingline studs available in the US.  I'm glad to see this discussion open up. 

I think the problem with many crosses and the lack of consistency is many of the breeders attempting this are breeding either mediocre examples of both lines or are breeding extremes. I have for a long time been interested in incorporating a V rated, calm, clear headed, proven working line dog into my breeding program. The idea would be to breed a resulting dog to another showline dog, then another showline dog, every 3-4 generations in hopes of keeping the genetics more open and maintaining working ability.  However, this is not a an experiment I take lightly and am not prepared to do so until I have learned a lot more about working lines themselves and find just the right dog.  I wonder how many generations it would take until even an experienced eye could not tell a working line dog had been added in. 

My first GSD was 3/4 showlines, 1/4 workinglines. He was a flashy black and red dog with very solid nerves and great drive. However, his litter was very inconsistent and after seeing some of them at maturity I was shocked they were even littermates. His structure was SG maximum in my opinion. He also tragically passed away at 2.  But he is a perfect example of why I am interested in crossing really great dogs, not just "okay" ones.  I have no interest in crossing lines just for the heck of it.  I'm sure it will take me years before I build up the nerve to try.