Atopic Dog - Page 2

hey,

i found this topic looking for more info about immunotherapy, since i have exactly the same problems you do, the only difference is that we live in Hungary... my dog has numerous allergies and atopy but totally recovered a few weeks after we started giving him the immunotherapy shots 6 months ago.

now he has shown the symptoms again for like 2 weeks, scratching himself and shedding.. i think we will try with the homeopatic drops as additional treatment and will see what happens.. actually, he was taking pills and some oil for his skin before we started immunotherapy and both worked well and reduced shedding and losing half his fur but they cannot be taken longer than 8 weeks..

right now i'm not sure what to do, waiting for our vet's answer...

There is never any 1 thing that works for any given dog.  Take it from someone with SEVERE allergic GSD who has had it from day 1 and never stops scratching.  And whose sister had a very bad GSD years ago, and has another 1 now.  Not "seasonal", but permanent.

BTW, we SHOULD be tracking down allergies in this breed.  It's obvious to me it's a bad problem - it's extremely expensive never mind miserable for the dog.  And all the dogs mentioned have GERMAN lines.

Anecdotes from people who had 1 dog with a couple allergies aren't going to solve your problem, even if they say "it all went away".  It's a hunt-&-peck game of trying to figure out what helps, based on "normal" dogs, but going from there when necessary.

My dog is vegetarian (animal protein allergies) and has MANY inhalant allergies to lots of things, most of which are "indoor"-based.  She's been on many different antihistamines, steroids (currently), has allergy serum every week, is supposed to take special medicated baths every week and "spot baths" more for trouble spots, has tried Atopica EVERY DAY at ST. BERNARD dosage for a year or more ("normal" abnormal dogs are supposed to ramp down to their weight every 3 weeks).  She's basically been through all the stuff that actually has research involved, but she is "incorrigible".  The doctor dismays of what to do.

You just try what you can and hope you find the combo.  What works for 1 dog isn't necessarily good for yours.

BTW, Atopica is NOT generally that bad for side effects.  It is well known it can produce GI effects within the 1st month, but they usually subside.  Again, don't base it on 1 person's experience.

I will say my dog didn't experience those problems at all - at 1st.  But months later she did get "colitis".  I never connected them because she is a wimpy, highly anxious dog who would get attacks whenever something stressful happened (usually us leaving her for a week, even if she loves my parents and loved being with other dogs).  My vet did get worried however, and he removed her from it last year during 1 of her attacks.  Bear in mind, however, my last post - the dog is highly bizarre, and was taking massive doses every single day, which is not what Atopica's producers had in mind.

I have a 6 year old female GSD that I give immunotherapy injections to once a week.  She's allergic to about everything around our house like your Arnie is.  I feel for you.  It's a long and frustrating process at times.  Our dermatologist warned us that it could take as long as 18 months (or more) for improvement from the immunotherapy and to be patient.   We're finally seeing some improvement.  Knock on wood.

This winter was absolutely brutal with her itching and hot spots from November - March.  I almost threw in the towel because I was at my wits end watching her scratch and not being able to do anything to give her relief.  I am glad we stuck with it though.  We have switched her antihistimines about 3-4 times during the past 18 months.  My understanding is that there are several different antihistimines out there so finding the right combination can be a process of elimination - at best.

I'm not a big fan of steroid injections because they just mask the underlying issue without actually treating it.  I know the medicated bathing did provide some initial relief for our girl.  Are you doing any bathing? 

I wish you nothing but the best with Arnie.  Unfortunately, you are not alone in this.  There appears to be far too many GSDs that suffer from allergies

Like the Ol'Line Rebel dog mine to is allergic to animal protein and 1 indoor allergan so as symptoms permanently not seasonal, I bathe him several times a week which provides some relief to the itching, I have been advised by the lab in my dogs case the vacine will not work due to the damage he has done to himself and the length of time he has had the condition. Before his recent relapse where another allergan developed (the indoor one) he recieved relief by being bathed with Quistle shampoo and having Udo's oil added to his diet, this contains omega 3,6 & 9 and is vegetarian as he can not tollerate fish oil.

I too am reluctant to use steroids as they will in my dogs case exagerate the symptoms (ie muscle wastage, increased hunger and weight loss) he already has.  This dog was fed a Raw diet before his allergies started, unfortunately apart from fruit he is now back on a complete. Cost so far have come to approx £3,600 and no further in solving his problems, and once again this dog is from WG lines.

When adding up the total of atopic GSD's with inhalation allergies, you can include both of mine, The first, half imported lines, half American lines, suffered from severe allergies from the time I got him at 9 weeks and other autoimmune problems as he matured. Immunotherapy helped him after about 15 months but he then developed a fomr of leukemia which took him from us  7 months later - he was only 7 1/2 years old. From all I have learned in the last 15 years, it's not unusual for a dog with allergies to go on to develop another autoimmune disease such as lupus, thyroid problems, or one of the leukemias. It is not just a skin deep problem; it is an indication of a dog that is an immune cripple. My current GSD, 100% showlines,  suffers from mild allergies and is kept under good control with antihistamines and grizzly salmon oil. He's 6 1/2 so he may get worse in time, many do. So far I'm 2 for 2.

If I've said it here once, I've said it a hundred times  and I must sound like a broken record to some - do not ever use an allergic dog for breeding and those dogs that have produced dogs  diagnosed with inhalation or food allergies should be suspect and given careful evaluation before being used to produce anymore progeny.  If they are not great dogs producing mostly great dogs without allergies, then it might be a good idea to withdraw them from a breeding program.

BTW Atopica is great for many dogs with allergies. However, it can cause some very profound side effects in some dog's due to a compromised immune system. If a dog taking Atopica developes a bacterial infection for example, it may not be able to combat that infection in spite of antibiotic therapy. Atopica is a human drug developed to prevent organ rejections in transplant patients.

It would be interesting if there were some direct correlation as far as research goes to what lines appear to be affected the most with this.  Our girl is from WG lines (50% show/50% working).  Our 4 year old male is from 100% Czech working lines and he's has fared far better medically. Luck of the draw, I guess. 

That would be tough to deal with 2 GSDs suffering from allergies at the same time.  As much as I love the breed, I don't ever want to have to go through this again.  I feel for anyone who is dealing with this or has dealt with this.  It can be a struggle to say the least.

As usual Blitzen, you appear to be right on.  I did find it interesting that you noted that dogs with allergies go on to develop another autoimmune disease. In our case the thyroid problem presented itself before the allergies if not at about the same time. Still a problem...still on meds.  I will hope and pray this is all that she has to endure.

Sadly experience is the best teacher. My first GSD had so many terrible things wrong with him that I had to learn a lot in  the  7 1/2 years I was able to keep him alive. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.  Words cannot describe the anguish of dealing with one major health problem after another and he was such a very very nice dog. I don't think there was ever a period of more than 2 months that he wasn't being treated for something. Although Blitz is mildly atopic, he's  6 1/2 and has never been to the vet for being sick so I am counting my blessings . 

It would be interesting to study which lines seem to be more affected than others.  Maybe some day we will have the right answers. DNA? Who knows.

Altho my girl does not sound near as bad as alot of you guys poor dogs I will say she is DDR/W.Ger. working lines, doubt that helps much.....I should also ad that the RAW diet has helped her 85% with her itching, but if she stresses over anything, like a vet visit, she will surely start to itch again for a few days to a week. Not as bad as before, but bad enough to break fur, usually on her sides behind the elbow. Before getting it under control it drove me nuts to see her itch so much all the time, helpless feeling.....

IMO, before diagnosing or treating any dog for skin diseases, the "gold standard" should be checking the dog for hypothyroidism (T3, T4, and TSH). A thyroid panel at many vets costs ~$100.

Even if the dog's thyroid tests within what is clinically considered to be within the normal range, treating  the dog empirically with thyroid supplementation may be a wise choice when investigating "rule-outs" when making a differential diagnosis.

Actually, supplementation for hypothyroidism can be dirt cheap (especially, if your vet will give you a prescription that may be filled via the internet) and can save the dog from a mass of iatrogenic (caused by the physician) diseases triggered by incorrect diagnosis/treatment and long-term use of steroids, antibiotics, etc.

In addition to a raw diet, the next consideration for all dogs with skin issues is to eliminate all vaccines and anti-parasite programs.

Following these protocols may stave off the progression of the cascade of immune-mediated diseases.